Commercial Hunting??

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Commercial Hunting??
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Commercial Hunting??
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Fernie
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the carbo's(black grouper) are not gone from here.
Just have to know where they are, some of us do.
  
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Big-Pard
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love how people try to compare market hunting with commercial fishing. There are several things you have to look at to keep the playing field even:

1- Do fish and ducks have comparable reproduction rates?

2- Is the commercial harvest alone effecting the overall health of the stock?

3- Are/were there any regulations governing the amount of harvest?

The idea of selling something commercially that others like to catch/hunt for themselves is the real reason for the anti-commercial movement. There are some who vehemently dislike the competition even though the commercial harvest pales in comparison to the recreation harvest of many species of fish. That is the reason when stocks are in trouble it becomes easy to say "Cut the commercial harvest because I only caught 10 this year" but when you have 750,000 or more "I's" then its not hard to see who catches what.
  
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mist
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the REAL KILLS in the last 10 yrs since the population exlplosion has been happening in the COOLERS of the "Just keeping a few to eat HORDS".....The commercials catchs are BIGGER LOOKING but if you could dump all the Wal-Mart coolers out at the dock ...U would see the REAL KILLER of our fish.....
The real out cry against the commercialS arose when all the Northern Immigrants that infested this state quit catching ALL THE TIME and decided IF THEY WEREN'T CATCHING...IT HAD TO BE THE COMMERCIALS!!!!...and so they joined CCA and decided THEY WANTED ALL THE FISH for their FLYRODS AND TOURNAMENTS......
CCA will back ANY AGENDA THAT BRINGS THEM MORE MONEY...ssoo now we have to deal with a CONTINOUS ATTACK ON COMMERCIALS of ANY KIND ..And crying and whinning over this SELFSH-SELF-CENTER...ALL FOR ME...un-american GAMEFISH BILL.......
TOO MANY PEOPLE and NOT ENOUGH FISH.....
If were a commercial I would start a bill that ELIMINATED RECS from certain species .... A COMMERCIAL BILL DESIGINATING GROUPER-KINGS and FLOUNDER FOR COMMERCIAL TAKE ONLY!!!!!
I HAVE NEVER COMMERCIAL FISHED BUT I WOULD vote for that deal just to EVEN THE PLAYING FIELD.................

The salt water world of NC has NEVER CENTERED in SPORTS ONLY...and I HOPE IT NEVER DOES............
  
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Curmudgeon
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curmudgeon, we can responsibly harvest stocks of fish forever as long as we PROPERLY manage the stocks.

Chris, I've not taken issue with that position, or the premise that stocks cannot be removed faster than replacement without damage to the resource. I do believe, however, it's debatable the former isn't happening, and that the latter is. What I've taken issue with, here, is apples and oranges, with those who would just do what-ever-the-hell they please, and with the premise that all we have to do is keep the up pressure and fish will reproduce more. As I said, I'm not taking sides in this urination contest, rational discussion is difficult with those who blame it all on commercials or those who blame it all on the recs. One thing consistent throughout history, however, mankind usually turns out to be a poor steward of any resource when money is involved ... :?

I spent three years in Alaska, and they had/have commercial and rec regs like you wouldn't believe. They spend the money quality data collection reguires, and they're not hesitant to take immediate and definitive action when the data indicates a need. Heck, they even have locations where some salmon seasons last a few hours, much less days or months. And as much as the extremes pizz and moan, Alaska has reasonably consistent hunting and fishing (rec and comm) year after year. But to do that they have to have management committed to the resource and a concept that no user is sacrosanct. Something NC management better figure out ... :?
  
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ChrisMcCaffity
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mist, there is some discussion in the Legislature of a compromise that designates Red Drum as a "game fish" and Striped Bass or Speckled Trout as a "food fish". The recs would get the entire Red Drum quota and commercial fishermen could not sell them. Recreational fishermen would not be allowed to target or keep any Striped Bass or Speckled Trout depending on which one they agreed to. Maybe that is the way to go if a few greedy "sportsmen" want to take our freedom to sell or eat certain delicious and commercially important fish. They can give up catching a recreationally important fish and allocate their share of the quota to commercial fishermen and consumers. If they just want to play with some fish and discard them, maybe they should target things like tarpon, gar, and barracuda. They are tough fish that have low discard mortality rates. Speckled Trout have high discard mortality rates when the water is warm or the oxygen level is low or they are gut hooked or they are fought too long or their vital organs are damaged and protective slime is wiped off as they are held firm enough to remove up to nine barbed hooks before finally being measured and discarded after being deprived of oxygen during all of this because they are a 1/16 of an inch shorter than the arbitrary 14 inch size limit. When those factors are not an issue, Speckled Trout have a low discard mortality rate. Whereas with evil gillnets, most undersized Speckled Trout pass through unharmed. The NCDMF numbers show that ten TONS of Speckled Trout die and go to waste annually after being discard. That is about the amount sold to consumers by commercial fishermen. Imagine how many consumers could enjoy Speckled Trout if recreational fishermen surrendered their freedom to catch them. That kind of sounds almost as absurd as demanding that consumers surrender their freedom to eat these delicious fish so a few more "sportsmen" will agree to visit our great state.

curmudgeon, you are right about needing better data and management of quotas. The extremely short seasons for some fish in Alaska is due in part to the fact that they are targeting salmon that only pass through for short periods on the way to spawn. The herring fishery lasts for a few hours when their eggs are perfect for the market. Many of our fisheries in NC and our offshore bottom can have a responsible harvest spread out over the entire year. It does not matter if the entire quota is caught in one hour or one year. You just have to have the data to ensure the quotas are not exceeded. The accurate data would also allow some quotas to be increased for both sectors. Look at the Black Sea Bass that are taking over and eating many juveniles of other important species. It all comes down to using sound science, accurate data, and the slightest bit of common sense in the proper management of our public resources.
  
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Catchem1
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisMcCaffity wrote:
we can responsibly harvest stocks of fish forever as long as we PROPERLY manage the stocks. We CANNOT remove fish at a faster rate than they can reproduce or the stock will collapse.


Spot on!
  
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Curmudgeon
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The recs would get the entire Red Drum quota and commercial fishermen could not sell them. Recreational fishermen would not be allowed to target or keep any Striped Bass or Speckled Trout depending on which one they agreed to.

Doesn't solve the assessment data collection problem, sounds like 'catch shares' to me, and does nothing about drum by-catch mortality. Nets still won't discriminate ... 8O
  
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RoughandReady
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curmudgeon wrote:
Nets still won't discriminate ... 8O


How are they suppose to supply the consumer with enough fresh seafood
if nets are removed? I for one think that the bycatch rate is acceptable at this time, for the amount of seafood harvested. And preventive measures have been put in place over the years. Yes there is still dead-loss, But i'm sure its at an all time low.
  
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Curmudgeon
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How are they suppose to supply the consumer with enough fresh seafood if nets are removed?

How do other states with no nets do it? Buy it from NC, maybe?

Yes there is still dead-loss, But i'm sure its at an all time low.

And I'm sure release mortality of stripers and trout by recs is acceptable, too, since not all releases die, and there's little empirical data to the contrary, either.

Your dead-loss (operative word, dead) would still be acceptable if were 'accidentally' trout were netted, but I could be charged for merely 'targeting' trout? I fish for and catch reds and trout in the same locations and in the same manner . And how much infusion into the economy goes away when rec (which includes charter) striper fishing ceases? How are they supposed to feed their children in winter if they're denied any catch share ...
  
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ChrisMcCaffity
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curmudgeon, I said the Legislature is considering that option. I DO NOT support taking ANYBODY'S FREEDOM to responsibly harvest our State's seafood. The discard mortality of fish from recreational fishermen far exceeds any discard mortality from gillnets. That could be fixed with science based size limits rather than arbitrary size limits that are supposed to limit harvest. Science based size limits are meant to allow a fish to breed once before being captured. Possession limits are the proper tool for limiting harvest and MANAGING quotas.

Nets are very discriminate if used properly. The RCGL holders are the ones that do the most harm with gillnets because many of them are not experienced at setting nets or the rules that apply to when and where they can be set.
  
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ecsports
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoughandReady wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:
Nets still won't discriminate ... 8O


How are they suppose to supply the consumer with enough fresh seafood
if nets are removed? I for one think that the bycatch rate is acceptable at this time, for the amount of seafood harvested. And preventive measures have been put in place over the years. Yes there is still dead-loss, But i'm sure its at an all time low.


Are you saying bycatch rates are ok in all fisheries Joe? I can think of one fishery where bycatch is a very real problem and it ain't gill nets.
  
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seapower
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alaska has been mentioned here. I would suggest that you ask the Halibut Charter Fleet in Homer, how much longer they think they'll be in business? Alaska, is not without it's problem's either. I was up there about 2 month's ago and got a real ear full. Let's put it this way, I was really glad I live in NC!!! Frank  
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecsports wrote:
RoughandReady wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:
Nets still won't discriminate ... 8O


How are they suppose to supply the consumer with enough fresh seafood
if nets are removed? I for one think that the bycatch rate is acceptable at this time, for the amount of seafood harvested. And preventive measures have been put in place over the years. Yes there is still dead-loss, But i'm sure its at an all time low.


Are you saying bycatch rates are ok in all fisheries Joe? I can think of one fishery where bycatch is a very real problem and it ain't gill nets.


No, Chris I didn't say that. I'm talking about where we are at in fisheries at this time. And the Fact that it is a healthly food source.

I for one think that the bycatch rate is acceptable at this time
In terms of maintaining and supplying the consumers with the amount of seafood that is taken, Which with years of changes for conservation have made this our best plan. It is acceptable and far exceeds what other countries are doing at this point and time. Offer some improvements in harvesting our resource, instead of ignoring the consumer and trying to keep the whole thing for one user group. Since when is it greedy to help feed people at a reasonable price.
I think the greedy people are easy to see, When you look at all 3 user groups & what they are doing to the others. Consumers want fresh seafood
and many are tired of eating seafood outa sewer ponds. So until things change commercial harvest will continue, Its not perfect but everyone involved has gone though several changes to help conserve our resources.
Yes mistakes are made, But you know what, Sometimes the cost of living isn't that pretty anyway & hopfully we will learn. If everyone spent there time improving fisheries instead of this constant bickering about the same old stuff, Maybe, Just Maybe we could improve it for everyone.
  
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Curmudgeon
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If everyone spent there time improving fisheries instead of this constant bickering about the same old stuff, Maybe, Just Maybe we could improve it for everyone.

There are many folks trying to do just that, improve the fishery for everyone, some just happen to have a different view of what constitutes 'improving fisheries' ... roll
  
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RoughandReady
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curmudgeon wrote:
If everyone spent there time improving fisheries instead of this constant bickering about the same old stuff, Maybe, Just Maybe we could improve it for everyone.

There are many folks trying to do just that, improve the fishery for everyone, some just happen to have a different view of what constitutes 'improving fisheries' ... roll


I don't think many people concider all the user groups with the same weight, when making decisions on how to improve fisheries. Most have a tendancy to make decisions that they think will improve their catch.


I accept the fact that I'm in all 3 groups, I love catching local seafood for sale.
I love going fishing for fun & also taking others to do the same.
But Mostly I enjoy eating fresh Local Seafood.
Hope it stays that way wink
  
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ecsports
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe,

I have been trying to offer solutions. I dont call names or make things personal dealing with fisheries issues. I want commercial fishing to continue and thrive (I do not support a full on net ban). However, I do see problems with by-catch in some fisheries. For instance, we could harvest just as many shrimp by removing regulations and red tape for shrimp pounds (shrimp traps) for comms and recs alike as well as channel nets and skimmer rigs. I think the by-catch rate in trawling for shrimp (7-1 - 20-1) inside along with tearing up the bottom is a bad way to go. We used to have a sound full of eel grass and clearer water in the summer (I know run off causes some of this). We IMHO would do better harvesting via shrimp pounds, channel nets, cast nets and skimmer rigs inside.

For years I hear the folks at the DMF say we can not open the new river yet the shrimp are too small. Then the folks start calling DMF and DMF caves. The guys go out drag the river, get shrimp so small at times the breader won't buy them for 75 cents a pound. The market is flooded with small shrimp. I am sure you have seen the acres of by-catch in the river on opening day just like I have. If we left them alone till they headed to the ocean and harvested by the ways I am describing we would have bigger shrimp that brought more per pound, have less by-catch and left the bottom un disturbed.
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BaitWaster
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catchem1 wrote:

We sure can loose our big breeders and tip the gene pool...
(Imagine if we killed off all the Hot Girls over the years (the big fish) and all that were left were the Nasty Girls (little fish)... the gene pool would look alot different in a matter of one generation.

For Example:
My grandfather has pictures of MASSIVE Black Grouper off of Wrightsville Beach! Not saying there gone... but they are sure gone from here (ie: we already killed off all of that gene pools "hot girls" around here) :(


Sidebar: All the big black grouper are males. Most groupers and sea bass are protogenous hermaphrodites and start out as females and change to males when they get big. So upping the size of black sea bass doesn't protect the older female spawners like in flounder & specks.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecsports wrote:
Joe,


For years I hear the folks at the DMF say we can not open the new river yet the shrimp are too small. Then the folks start calling DMF and DMF caves. The guys go out drag the river, get shrimp so small at times the breader won't buy them for 75 cents a pound. The market is flooded with small shrimp. I am sure you have seen the acres of by-catch in the river on opening day just like I have. If we left them alone till they headed to the ocean and harvested by the ways I am describing we would have bigger shrimp that brought more per pound, have less by-catch and left the bottom un disturbed.


Mandated arbitrary dates, Like they can't open it before aug 15th.
By then its sometimes too late or too early.
After they do a test drag it would take over a week to open.
If it was opened properly then the shrimp size was large and bycatch was
small.(Didn't happen very often). The small shrimp mostly came outa the waterway. Usually the river has bigger shrimp. I don't agree with the way they open it either. Most of the skimmer friendly bottom in the waterway has been closed in the last 5 years by NCDMF in our area.
  
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seapower
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ECSPORT's,
Not starting an arguement but, do you have any idea HOW LONG shrimp trawling has taken place here? That fishery was use for for hog food, back in the day. When guy's had skiff's (that folk's now aday's wouldn't take across the River)and small single trawl boat's using old slant 6 Chrysler's. Back then they got 6 cent's a pound for them, if they could sell em'. I'm speaking of the Pamlico Sound here. By the way, shrimp pound's and channel net's won't work in the Pamlico. Too deep for skimmer's and pot's have yet to work. There is sooooooooooooo much less net pressure now than there was even 10 year's ago. It's been in a steady decline for 20 year's. I don't get the logic here at all, again it's the same old complaint for year's. If that dog would hunt, then the water's would be bumper to bumper fish. The effort is almost non-exsistant from what it used to be. Frank
  
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ecsports
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank I know very well how long shrimp trawling has been going on here. You know the Pamlico better than I do so I will leave that to you. However, Topsail was not shrimped havily until the 60's. I am 35 years old but I am 3rd generation. The Medlins were the 3rd or 4th family on the island (depending on who you ask). Prior to shrimp trawling we had stripers at the drawbridge. Now that the eel grass is gone they are gone. My dad used to row his boat to ANY channel marker in the summer with a 1/2 pound of shrimp and catch enough big red fin croakers to sell at the resturaunt for 2 days hook and line. He could see the bottom at all the channel markers with eel grass waving in the summer. My father and grandfather had a shrimp boat they used to use to catch shrimp to sell in our fish market. I worked shrimp boats, channel nets in my youth as well as gill nets, strike nets and potted for crabs.

Trawlers here drag the bottom kill the eel grass and muddy the water so eel grass can't grow. I know runoff has some effect. 7-1 to 20-1 bycatch is having an effect on our fishery. Folks can deny it all they want but that is the reality. For the most part the guys shrimping the sound here are not full timers. Most are RCGL or weekenders. Maybe, we need different management for different areas. There is more pressure here than there was because of the RCGL and weekenders than there was back then.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecsports wrote:
Frank I know very well how long shrimp trawling has been going on here. You know the Pamlico better than I do so I will leave that to you. However, Topsail was not shrimped havily until the 60's. I am 35 years old but I am 3rd generation. The Medlins were the 3rd or 4th family on the island (depending on who you ask). Prior to shrimp trawling we had stripers at the drawbridge. Now that the eel grass is gone they are gone. My dad used to row his boat to ANY channel marker in the summer with a 1/2 pound of shrimp and catch enough big red fin croakers to sell at the resturaunt for 2 days hook and line. He could see the bottom at all the channel markers with eel grass waving in the summer. My father and grandfather had a shrimp boat they used to use to catch shrimp to sell in our fish market. I worked shrimp boats, channel nets in my youth as well as gill nets, strike nets and potted for crabs.

Trawlers here drag the bottom kill the eel grass and muddy the water so eel grass can't grow. I know runoff has some effect. 7-1 to 20-1 bycatch is having an effect on our fishery. Folks can deny it all they want but that is the reality. For the most part the guys shrimping the sound here are not full timers. Most are RCGL or weekenders. Maybe, we need different management for different areas. There is more pressure here than there was because of the RCGL and weekenders than there was back then.
7 to 1 to 20 to 1..... Where did you get these numbers? The DMF has a study (somewhere) showing where an area that had a build up of silt and virtually no signs of fish or other animals was opened to trawlers and in a short time the signs life started coming back. After they stopped trawling, the area returned to being uninhabited.

Have you ever walked into a pine tree plantation? When the pine straw covers the floor it smothers the ground not letting anything grow in much the same way that silt does on the bottom.
  
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ecsports
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Pard the ocean took care of itself for millions of years before trawling. I would be glad to see the report Pard. What numbers do you have? A wiki showed 7-1 or 20-1. NOAA shows and average of 5.25-1.

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/by_catch/bycatch_gulf.html
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seapower
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ECSPORT's,
We don't have the weekend pressure you guy's do, there is some. But most of the fisherman (not as much as year's back) are on the full time scale. I can't help but remind you of the growth and population density, that has exploded in your area in the last year's.
Folk's here have brought up the "seaweed" issue here too. I can't help but think that the herbicide run off, isn't helping the growth. I can show you area's that have been closed to trawling here (because of public pressure) and there isn't anymore grass or fish, than before.
Again, you and I don't have a problem (as stated before, this isn't personal). All I can comment on is what I have SEEN and KNOW. One of the main problem's WE all have here on the Coast, goes right back to that old "Eagle's" song, "Call a place Paradise and kiss it good bye". I am not knocking folk's for moving here, who wouldn't want to live here? But I think you get my drift. This was once just a huge rural "no man's" land, with the increase of people, there is alway's an increase of problem's. Frank
  
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mist
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seapower wrote:
ECSPORT's,
We don't have the weekend pressure you guy's do, there is some. But most of the fisherman (not as much as year's back) are on the full time scale. I can't help but remind you of the growth and population density, that has exploded in your area in the last year's.
Folk's here have brought up the "seaweed" issue here too. I can't help but think that the herbicide run off, isn't helping the growth. I can show you area's that have been closed to trawling here (because of public pressure) and there isn't anymore grass or fish, than before.
Again, you and I don't have a problem (as stated before, this isn't personal). All I can comment on is what I have SEEN and KNOW. One of the main problem's WE all have here on the Coast, goes right back to that old "Eagle's" song, "Call a place Paradise and kiss it good bye". I am not knocking folk's for moving here, who wouldn't want to live here? But I think you get my drift. This was once just a huge rural "no man's" land, with the increase of people, there is alway's an increase of problem's. Frank




INCREASE OF PEOPLE....INCREASE OF PROBLEMS......we have sold our paradise to the developers that ONLY WANT more Y AN KEE NESTING AREAS.....
  
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ECSPORT's,
Short sighted gain's, have been what I would consider the most damaging. Again, no aruement here, but this is one of those thing's that I have seen for myself. Over the year's this has played out too many time's to keep count.
The "example" of my point is a friend of mine that fishes and hunt's with me, very frequently. He is (was, depending on sale's) one of those "big shot" developer's, that know's the in's and out's of how to buy land that folk's like me can't do athing with because of regulation's. He has bee able to buy land cheap and sell it very, very high. In the past he has made well over a million dollar's a year (his part). He is alway's looking for the next, "big deal", trouble is he is "flat assed broke", now. Slow sales for a few year's and a champagne lifestyle don't mix very well. As for a million a year, I don't think I could even count that high, never mind piss it away!!!
He and his "backer's" have bought and sold land for huge profit's. Yet it was alway's, short term gain. It's mostly been the same thing for most of the other's I know here and in SC. Make a crap load of money "today", busted "tommorrow". Trouble is, they have sold what we have counted on (or took for granted) for generation's here. Once again, if "I'm" gonna make a load of money it's OK, never mind what happen's later. Just look at what our good neighbor Weyerhouser has done over the year's, all in the name of profit's. Once the sale's stop, they just move on. We on the other hand are left to deal with "short sighted" gain's. They aren't the only one's that have used US to make a profit, they are just the first one's that came to mind. Frank
  
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ChrisMcCaffity
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like stopping RCGL holders from using trawl gear and gillnets could be a good place to start on an alternative to HB-353. What do you guys think of this as another alternative? Remove the arbitrary hard deadline for rebuilding Speckled Trout stocks and leave possession limits where they are rather than reducing them to 3 fish for recreational fishermen and 25 fish for commercial fishermen next year. What about going back to a science based 12 inch size limit for specks instead of the arbitrary 14 inches that has drastically increased Regulatory Discards. I have talked to several recreational fishermen that tell me they have discarded as many as 100 specks in a day without having one over 14 inches to take home. Sometimes, 13 inch specks are what is around or biting on a given day. NCDMF data shows an average of ten TONS of discarded Speckled Trout die and go to waste.

There are some solutions that would benefit the vast majority of us while limiting the negative impacts to fish, fishermen, and consumers. The RCGL guys could be restricted to shrimp pots and skimmer rigs. Trawling actually benefits the ecosystem in some areas. Trawling should be left to professional commercial fishermen.

We need to work on an alternative to HB-353 that can get broad support from all user groups including consumers and the public can understand. We need to contrast the two options and get public support for our alternative. I have been making connections with State Representatives that want to sponsor an alternative bill. Is anybody interested in helping to SOLVE this game fish problem?
  
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Capt_Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would bet a call for an end to RCGL permits would get broad support.

Dave
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ecsports
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anybody have a link to a study where bottom trawling has improved the eco-system? I have looked and can not find one. I can find plenty that show how it damages the eco-system. If a farmer tills his fields year after year without putting anything back the field becomes useless.

I was in Tampa bay in 93 and went on a speck fishing trip. We caught 3 with a guide. Could not see the bottom in most areas. The grass was gone. They removed the trawls, water cleared up and the grass came back. Plenty of development and golf courses in Tampa as well. We went back in 99 and caught specks (with the same guide) till we begged to go find something else. We caught reds and had a couple of shots at cobia as well.

It seems that when 1 factor (trawls) are removed from the inside grass comes back, fish comeback and the ocean reclaims what it lost.

Dave,

It won't get broad support. Even the full time guys I speak with weekly will not get behind one because they think it is a step toward a net ban. I would love to see it though.
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seapower
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecsports wrote:
Does anybody have a link to a study where bottom trawling has improved the eco-system? I have looked and can not find one. I can find plenty that show how it damages the eco-system. If a farmer tills his fields year after year without putting anything back the field becomes useless.

I was in Tampa bay in 93 and went on a speck fishing trip. We caught 3 with a guide. Could not see the bottom in most areas. The grass was gone. They removed the trawls, water cleared up and the grass came back. Plenty of development and golf courses in Tampa as well. We went back in 99 and caught specks (with the same guide) till we begged to go find something else. We caught reds and had a couple of shots at cobia as well.

It seems that when 1 factor (trawls) are removed from the inside grass comes back, fish comeback and the ocean reclaims what it lost.

Dave,

It won't get broad support. Even the full time guys I speak with weekly will not get behind one because they think it is a step toward a net ban. I would love to see it though.



This is exactly why this dis-course is USELESS. You've got a single-minded agenda, it appear's. Your right, trawl's, gillnet's,pot's, etc............ are THE problem. Has nothing at all to do with any other factor's. Waste of time presenting the historical fact's, in this arena. As usual. Frank
  
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ecsports
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank,

If you notice I asked for a reference to a study that showed where trawls benefit the eco-system. I have never said pots were a problem and have stated gilnets don't have a huge problem with by-catch or hurt the eco-system when used properly.

Frank, You don't know me so please don't say I am close minded. I am very open to scientific proof. My agenda is clear "I want more fish in the water for everyone" comms included. If a trawl in a creek helps me achieve that goal then I am open to it.
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