An answer for the net ban and gamefish status

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An answer for the net ban and gamefish status
An answer for the net ban and gamefish status
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An answer for the net ban and gamefish status
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mist
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seapower wrote:
Sound's like the line's at the Social Security Office, Food Stamp, Welfare Office, are fixing to get just abit longer. I guess you guy's are right, Commercial Fisherman have alway's been and alway's will be the most destructive force on Earth. Absolutely amazing.

So I guess all the "water front" home's, condo's, development from the Coast to Raleigh have had no effect here. Where does the run off go from these development's, fertilizer's, weed killer's, golf course up keep, oil from the parking lot's, sewage treatment plant'xs (I know that stuff is clean enough to drink. Problem is, I've yet to see ANYONE that makes that claim drink a glass), etc........... Where are the sore's coming from on our bait fish (you know the bottom of the food cxhain), what's making the oyster's die in bulk, etc........

Truth be known, I remember back in the day when we headed South in our "deadly" shrimp boat's. From Adam's Creek, to nearly Myrtle Beach, on through Charleston, down To Fernidina, It was "hook her up" the whole way down(just about). Yes there were place's you had to slow down, but now it is a complete NO WAKE ZONE. These mile's and mile's of marsh and saw grass, "WAS" the estuary, not any more. Imagine that, build all your high priced retirement home's on the bank with all the run-off, then add on top of that all of your Stupid assed law's (to make it like "it" was where you came from") and you're all suprised there's a "problem".

Guess your right, it's the Commercial Guy's, has to be. Cause it sure as HELL can't be US! Are you kinding me??? I'm gonna need a good dose of sedative's, if I keep reading these post's. Seriously, you guy's need to take a little time and study the "history" of this area. It was pretty much, farming or fishing, until the recent past. Common sense is a dead animal, I guess I need to quit trying to feed it.

My response's may come across "personal", they are not meant to be. I guess I just can't let go of the idea, of what this place "used" to be. Sorry guy's, but I make no appologies's about who I am. This stuff isn't something I "read" somewhere, I've lived it and lived it hard! I'll will continue standing up for what North Carolina "used" to be, until the day I die! You cannot change the truth, it stand's on it's own! Frank
  

Last edited by mist on Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

allenj wrote:
RoughandReady wrote:
Allen I read it real carefully. As for your complaints they are self serving.
Unlike You I have nothing to gain from this. But All the changes you propose will make fishing more profitable for You, good luck in your crusade. Greed gets You nowhere.



???????????????????The reason I proposed this is a answer to the gamefish and net ban. I don't agree with either one. They deny part of the population access to these fish. I have nothing to gain at all from these proposals. What do you think I have to gain?

This is nothing but a simple answer to a problem in which no one is denied access to the resource. I am going to support my family running charters and gigging flounder whether striper/drum/trout are made gamefish or not. I am going to support my family running charters and gigging flounder whether nets are banned or not. I don't really care either way.

There is still a commercial fishery with my proposal.

A CLEAN commercial fishery.


I didn't say there wasn't, But your Proposal suits you, Not the rest of the community.
  

Last edited by RoughandReady on Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe, I get it, I really do. I agree with you on some of this stuff and some things I may not, but no matter what, I do respect what you have to say, Frank you as well. You both know more about all this then I do. I never said everything Allen proposed was an end all solution or that it would work or that it was even needed. But trying to improve the fishery in any way is a good thing in my eyes and some of that just might do that. I'm just trying to stay open minded.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fishfindertoo wrote:
Joe, I get it, I really do. I agree with you on some of this stuff and some things I may not, but no matter what, I do respect what you have to say, Frank you as well. You both know more about all this then I do. I never said everything Allen proposed was an end all solution or that it would work or that it was even needed. But trying to improve the fishery in any way is a good thing in my eyes and some of that just might do that. I'm just trying to stay open minded.


Please don't take any of this as a "personal" arguement, it really isn't. One thing has alway's come to my mind, "if this State was so screwed up, why do they keep coming"??? This isn't a South against North thing either. The simple fact is that this part of NC, is one of the last place's in this Country that I know of, that a man can make a go of it, simply on his grit! Not many places left like this anymore, I for one know that once it's gone, it's over for ever. Frank
  
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand we need to take care of what we have.
But people who propose laws to improve their situation and hurt others
just doesn't make sence to me. When proposals help everyone involved
as a whole its the right path to take.
  
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

allenj wrote:
RoughandReady wrote:
Fishfindertoo wrote:
RoughandReady wrote:
Fishfindertoo wrote:
Frank, what bothers you so much about what allen proposes. Just the fact that it's not the way it use to be??? I'm not going to pretend to know if any of that is even needed, but what he's saying makes sense and if I'm not mistaken he's a comm fisherman. All the other stuff you mentioned is also true, but that doesn't mean we still can't improve other areas as well.


Maybe just maybe Allens proposes suite Allen, Not everyone else in the fishery. It will never work & if you think it will work commen sence has left your head. Its like making one shoe fit everybody. Everyone has a different size is that too hard to conceive? roll


Joe, not looking for an argument. You know what....just forget I posted.....


Fishfindertoo, Its not an argument, I'm just saying that this one shoe fits all
across a broad region isn't going to work. Theres alot of guys to the north of us that don't get the proper conditions to gig. Also alot of people don't work good at night. I know alot of older guys(that hate the dark) But, that flounder fish during the day in the pamlico to make ends meet.Taking away what they do is wrong in my book. They have worked all their life and if they get some joy outa flounder netting after they retire, they should be able to do it. Old man Mr. Pete loved it outa hampstead. Hate to see people like him lose it.





I have gigged Pamlico just fine. They do get the conditions to do it up there. Joe they are not allowed to flounder fish Pamlico in the daytime. You can not set flounder gill nets in the daytime anymore. That whole region of the state is closed to flounder nets what now?? 6 months of the year?


Capt Allen,
You are correct, there are time's when the Pamlico can be very productive. When Texas Gulf, PCS, Potash (whatever name it is this month), has an acid spill in the river. A simple dip net or just gloved hand's will do. The flounder are lined up, one atop another, trying to get out of the water. This is one of those "under the rug" thing's that's been going on for year's and year's. Yet the commercial guy's carry the blame here too. It never end's, Frank
  
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seapower wrote:
Fishfindertoo wrote:
Joe, I get it, I really do. I agree with you on some of this stuff and some things I may not, but no matter what, I do respect what you have to say, Frank you as well. You both know more about all this then I do. I never said everything Allen proposed was an end all solution or that it would work or that it was even needed. But trying to improve the fishery in any way is a good thing in my eyes and some of that just might do that. I'm just trying to stay open minded.


Please don't take any of this as a "personal" arguement, it really isn't. One thing has alway's come to my mind, "if this State was so screwed up, why do they keep coming"??? This isn't a South against North thing either. The simple fact is that this part of NC, is one of the last place's in this Country that I know of, that a man can make a go of it, simply on his grit! Not many places left like this anymore, I for one know that once it's gone, it's over for ever. Frank


Not at all. Trust me, I know where you're coming from.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it Allen and this is what I have been saying for 2 years. No doubt you will be painted with the same broad brush as I have been by some. I and many others in the GF movement could live with all of what you and I have proposed. There are a few that want nothing short of a net ban. You and I are not in that catagory but do think there needs to be some compromise. If you suggest the smallest change to the status quo you are painted as a left wing, pew lovin tree hugger as some would lead you to think I am. I have spoke with quite a few commercial guys. If yall haven't noticed, I tend to speak with folks that disagree with me more than those that do because I want others perspectives.

So far I have seen 3 people on here (recs) proposing compromise on the GF bill but none from the other side of the table.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seapower wrote:
Fishfindertoo wrote:
Joe, I get it, I really do. I agree with you on some of this stuff and some things I may not, but no matter what, I do respect what you have to say, Frank you as well. You both know more about all this then I do. I never said everything Allen proposed was an end all solution or that it would work or that it was even needed. But trying to improve the fishery in any way is a good thing in my eyes and some of that just might do that. I'm just trying to stay open minded.


One thing has alway's come to my mind, "if this State was so screwed up, why do they keep coming"???. Frank


The reason they keep coming is because NC is the probably the last state that allows some of it's practices. If NC was truly interested in it's heritage then it would have prevented outsiders from moving here when their states shut them down, then the locals would have been allowed to keep working the rivers.
  
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecsports wrote:
I like it Allen and this is what I have been saying for 2 years. No doubt you will be painted with the same broad brush as I have been by some. I and many others in the GF movement could live with all of what you and I have proposed. There are a few that want nothing short of a net ban. You and I are not in that catagory but do think there needs to be some compromise. If you suggest the smallest change to the status quo you are painted as a left wing, pew lovin tree hugger as some would lead you to think I am. I have spoke with quite a few commercial guys. If yall haven't noticed, I tend to speak with folks that disagree with me more than those that do because I want others perspectives.

So far I have seen 3 people on here (recs) proposing compromise on the GF bill but none from the other side of the table.


Thats because none from the other side are on here.
  
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No pound nets for flounder?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think pound nets are great if limits are kept in check. Most of the by-catch in pounds can be released unharmed. shrimp pounds great (we need more of them and NCDMF to get outta the way). Channel nets great, butterflys great. I am still gonna be painted with that broad brush though. :(
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone want to hear my thoughts ?????? ......... ICM
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pound nets are a different gear.
My original post was just talking about the gill net and gamefish issue, then comes all the drama and fallout. Pound nets are a different animal. I guess I should edit the original post. Did not even think about them.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have been waiting for you to chime in ICM
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seapower, you keep bringing up "condos" and "development" as if any other state does not have those same variables........

I'm pretty sure places like Louisiana have condos and golf courses too, but you get to keep 5 red fish there....

You old timers can argue semantics and split hairs all you want. The fact is that technology has improved dramatically across the globe including fishing technology........

This increase in technology is the number one reason for overfishing around the world. Period. This increase in technology is exponential: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth
However fish can not spawn and replenish the seas at a rate = to or > than the exponential growth of fishing technology.

What happened after the gill net bans in Florida? Ill let you read for your self: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fe123

To sum it up, there was some good, and some bad, it hurt the commercials, obviously, but it did help the species to rise up again. However, it was not the end of the world for fisherman. Some quit, some moved on to other jobs, some got government help.....


Compromise means the following:

To compromise is to make a deal between different parties where each party gives up part of their demand. In arguments, compromise is a concept of finding agreement through communication, through a mutual acceptance of terms—often involving variations from an original goal or desire. Extremism is often considered as antonym to compromise, which, depending on context, may be associated with concepts of balance, tolerance. In the negative connotation, compromise may be referred to as capitulation, referring to a "surrender" of objectives, principles, or material, in the process of negotiating an agreement. In human relationships "compromise" is frequently said to be an agreement that no party is happy with, this is because the parties involved often feel that they either gave away too much or that they received too little.



All Allen has done is given us a very nice looking set of suggestions to bring forth a compromise, and you aren't giving his thoughts a chance because you say he is greedy.........how rude!

Either way, there is nothing in the world that will make me change my mind about gillnets. They may feed your family for now, but they will eventually ruin the ecosystem for the future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvTsUA4RWRE


No that is not me...
  
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Durwyn wrote:
Seapower, you keep bringing up "condos" and "development" as if any other state does not have those same variables........

I'm pretty sure places like Louisiana have condos and golf courses too, but you get to keep 5 red fish there....

You old timers can argue semantics and split hairs all you want. The fact is that technology has improved dramatically across the globe including fishing technology........

This increase in technology is the number one reason for overfishing around the world. Period. This increase in technology is exponential: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth
However fish can not spawn and replenish the seas at a rate = to or > than the exponential growth of fishing technology.

What happened after the gill net bans in Florida? Ill let you read for your self: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fe123

To sum it up, there was some good, and some bad, it hurt the commercials, obviously, but it did help the species to rise up again. However, it was not the end of the world for fisherman. Some quit, some moved on to other jobs, some got government help.....


Compromise means the following:

To compromise is to make a deal between different parties where each party gives up part of their demand. In arguments, compromise is a concept of finding agreement through communication, through a mutual acceptance of terms—often involving variations from an original goal or desire. Extremism is often considered as antonym to compromise, which, depending on context, may be associated with concepts of balance, tolerance. In the negative connotation, compromise may be referred to as capitulation, referring to a "surrender" of objectives, principles, or material, in the process of negotiating an agreement. In human relationships "compromise" is frequently said to be an agreement that no party is happy with, this is because the parties involved often feel that they either gave away too much or that they received too little.



All Allen has done is given us a very nice looking set of suggestions to bring forth a compromise, and you aren't giving his thoughts a chance because you say he is greedy.........how rude!

Either way, there is nothing in the world that will make me change my mind about gillnets. They may feed your family for now, but they will eventually ruin the ecosystem for the future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvTsUA4RWRE


No that is not me...


Durwyn,
Please show me where I called allen "greedy". The problem with any discussion on this subject is that both side's are never objective and will not keep an open mind long enough to "talk this thing out". If you will look again at what I have stated , you will find that I am careful not to force the other guy in the corner. The minute fur start's to fly, the "discussion" is over.

As far a Louisiana goes, they are (as far as I'm concerned) the only other State that has what WE have here. Low population, with large area's of estuary, nursery and open water. Please show me the condo's that they have built in the bayou's. With your showing of "web site's" and google dictionary of "term's", you have shown me that you are letting "someone else" (no matter who that may be), form your opinion for you. It matter's little to me about someone else's opinion, that hasn't seen or doesn't understand the matter at hand.

One more time, there is nothing personal here what so ever. WE are simply seeing "outside" influence's tear down a system that has worked here for generation's long before our's. IF ONLY YOU could have seen what this precious piece of realestate was, in the not so distant past. Again, I am relaying what I have seen, know and have worked. Nothing in my opinion come's from a book, google and certainly doesn't come from "You Tube". Frank
  
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are many ways to compromise. It does not mean that one thing or another has to be completely done away with forever. You can also compromise by making changes within the existing system. One way to do this in regards to the net ban argument is to do away with a large number of the nets that are being fished every year without changing anything that the commercial fishermen are doing. This could be very easily done by eliminating the RCGL.
That one relatively small rule change which would not harm anyone economically would eliminate a significant portion of the netters that line the waterways every fall and which inevitably set off these arguments again and again. There are only a few thousand commercial permit holders and only a fraction of those even fish nets at all. Only a small fraction net full time. They are the guys you want fishing nets because they are the ones who ultimately know what they are doing.
This one rule change would also eliminate over half of the inshore shrimp trawlers. Again, eliminating specifically, the group which is more often than not the real problem.
If after making this change there are still issues that need sorting out, I would welcome more input from anyone. But like I said, this wouldn't hurt anyone financially and would make BIG changes where the rubber meets the road.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By not compromising, we will leave this decision in the hands of people who could care less about how it used to be. It might feel good to stand your ground!!, but it's dumb.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Gamefish Bill will eventually pass. It may be 5 years down the road, but eventually it will. (I don't agree with it) After it passes, a net ban will handed down because of interactions with Gamefish. What is the small guy going to do then?

All I propose is a way to avoid this. My examples of how it could be in the first thread preserves a commercial way of fishing, and noone is denied Specks, reds and striper and the market. It is a win win, people can still work, just with different gear. If nothing is done, the end is in sight.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

seapower wrote:


With your showing of "web site's" and google dictionary of "term's", you have shown me that you are letting "someone else" (no matter who that may be), form your opinion for you.



Really? Well then I believe that the above comment proves my original point (considering technology), and proves that, even though you are currently on an internet site that provides information and knowledge, that you have the audacicity to assume that I lack the ability to learn or form opinions based off of that same knowledge.

The internet is a great source of knowledge, and just like ANY media, books included, you have to look at the information from as many angles as possible to form opinions and conclusions.

Technology has provided a way for people to learn and communicate at speeds that you seem to be ignoring, even though you are using that technology as we speak. For you to somehow de-value the internet is ironic, and irresponsible.

With your comment above, I could very well turn this situation around on you and say, ok Im a drug dealer, and you are letting the government and the internet tell you that drugs are bad.....and until you go out and deal drugs for yourself, then you cant make your own opinions on it.......

Granted that is a very extreme comparison, you cant tell me that I cant look at images and videos of waste and obvious rape/pillage of a natural resource that is on the decline, and then tell me I cant form an opinion about it until I have tried commercial fishing.....

This is what is hurting the ecosystem:
1) Technology
2) Overfishing (using said technology)
3) Pollution and run off
4) Natural Cycle of fish
5) Politicians
We can not change #4, but we have the ability to control #1 #2 # 3 and #5.

Ive been fishing AB and MHC as a recreational fisherman for 15 years. I did not catch my first flounder, red drum, spanish mackeral, hattarass blue, cobia, sheepshead, or speckeled trout until 2010.....Why you ask? Because I did not have access to sites like FPT, NCA, NCW, or TXShark....

Once I had access to this information, I was led to the technology and techniques needed to target speciific species, and then it was on! Now since 2010, I have been catching almost everything I fish for. The only species on my list are offshore species that I just physically dont have access too.

In my 15 years of fishing, all I ever hear about, on the pier or on the shore, old timers telling me how great the fishing was in the past. About how many fish they were allowed to keep. About how many stripers they use to catch in MHC!!!!!!!!! About how it was nothing to sit at the end of the pier and see multiple 15ft+ sharks stroll past the end. About the INSANE blue fish blitzes on the beach....About how great BFT fishing use to be! About how great kingfishing from the pier used to be! About how you could fill a cooler of spots as big as your head in no time at all ( I have not been able to fill a cooler of spots in 5 years.....use to do it with ease)!!

Its not the same anymore. Why is the BFT population so depleted Seapower? Why isnt the fishing as good around MHC/AB/BIP anymore? Somebody please tell me why.

Im willing to learn, and I am a very fast learner. Show me the truth.
  
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have one group that is well funded, determined, and good at publicity. Then on the other hand you have a group that is tight lipped, unsocial, and weary of strangers with candy. You look around the internet all you want but all you are going to see there is what the one said has to show you. Which is an extremely slanted point of view. Not saying you didn't see what you saw, just saying that theres a lot you didn't see and that you wont see unless you experience it. No one on the internet is capable of showing you what we are talking about. Suffice it to say, you cant believe everything you see on the internet.
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Durwyn
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eric13 wrote:
You have one group that is well funded, determined, and good at publicity. Then on the other hand you have a group that is tight lipped, unsocial, and weary of strangers with candy. You look around the internet all you want but all you are going to see there is what the one said has to show you. Which is an extremely slanted point of view. Not saying you didn't see what you saw, just saying that theres a lot you didn't see and that you wont see unless you experience it. No one on the internet is capable of showing you what we are talking about. Suffice it to say, you cant believe everything you see on the internet.


Correct. I dont believe everything I see on the internet. And its not slanted one way.....there is just as much information for both sides of the arguement. You have to take it all in, and dig through the BS.

However, when you see video and picture evidence of waste.....its hard to make excuses or de-value that evidence...

If a picture is worth a thousand words, then a video is worth a million.
  
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Catchem1
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Joined: Jan 30, 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Its not the same anymore. Why is the BFT population so depleted Seapower? Why isnt the fishing as good around MHC/AB/BIP anymore? Somebody please tell me why.
Im willing to learn, and I am a very fast learner. Show me the truth."

Truth... ok....

You ask Why?.... OVERFISHING.... BFT are such a Highly Migratory Species (HMS) that their stock has been CRUSHED... Long gone are the days where a 1500lb BFT is landed.... bye bye BIG Breeding Stock...

Is there an undeniable parallel between this FACT and the inshore fish of today...?

YES.... bye bye Breeding stocks of Citation size inside fish.... (sure you may pick up one every now and then... but not like the pictures i have seen from Wrightsville Beach from the 60's and prior).

Whose to Blame... EVERYONE! bottom line... There is a better way... Everyone will need to sacrifice a portion their "Fishing Freedoms" to some extent for the good of the Fishery...
  
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ice cream man
Ol'Salt
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Joined: Jun 06, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eric13 wrote:
You have one group that is well funded, determined, and good at publicity. Then on the other hand you have a group that is tight lipped, unsocial, and weary of strangers with candy. You look around the internet all you want but all you are going to see there is what the one said has to show you. Which is an extremely slanted point of view. Not saying you didn't see what you saw, just saying that theres a lot you didn't see and that you wont see unless you experience it. No one on the internet is capable of showing you what we are talking about. Suffice it to say, you cant believe everything you see on the internet.


The OP AllenJ, he has the experienced both side of this issue & I seriously doubt he's well funded or a representative of some well oiled publicity seeking activist group.
His plan has merit, it can work if given a chance. Instead of pontificating about Internet arguing, make your point by debating his original post.
Instead he's personally attacked, for stepping up. Why? Because he may have a viable solution. ....... ICM
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Capt_John
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catchem1 wrote:
"Its not the same anymore. Why is the BFT population so depleted Seapower? Why isnt the fishing as good around MHC/AB/BIP anymore? Somebody please tell me why.
Im willing to learn, and I am a very fast learner. Show me the truth."

Truth... ok....

You ask Why?.... OVERFISHING.... BFT are such a Highly Migratory Species (HMS) that their stock has been CRUSHED... Long gone are the days where a 1500lb BFT is landed.... bye bye BIG Breeding Stock...

Is there an undeniable parallel between this FACT and the inshore fish of today...?

YES.... bye bye Breeding stocks of Citation size inside fish.... (sure you may pick up one every now and then... but not like the pictures i have seen from Wrightsville Beach from the 60's and prior).

Whose to Blame... EVERYONE! bottom line... There is a better way... Everyone will need to sacrifice a portion their "Fishing Freedoms" to some extent for the good of the Fishery...


There's plenty of tuna over the 1,000 pound mark. They just don't come this way. The larger tunas never did come through here, they alway travelled offshore of our range. What out of hand tuna fishing going on does not happen here. It's mostly in the Med. I understand the point you're trying to make, but there are plenty of big tunas left.
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seapower
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Joined: Jun 18, 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Durwyn wrote:
seapower wrote:


With your showing of "web site's" and google dictionary of "term's", you have shown me that you are letting "someone else" (no matter who that may be), form your opinion for you.



Really? Well then I believe that the above comment proves my original point (considering technology), and proves that, even though you are currently on an internet site that provides information and knowledge, that you have the audacicity to assume that I lack the ability to learn or form opinions based off of that same knowledge.

The internet is a great source of knowledge, and just like ANY media, books included, you have to look at the information from as many angles as possible to form opinions and conclusions.

Technology has provided a way for people to learn and communicate at speeds that you seem to be ignoring, even though you are using that technology as we speak. For you to somehow de-value the internet is ironic, and irresponsible.

With your comment above, I could very well turn this situation around on you and say, ok Im a drug dealer, and you are letting the government and the internet tell you that drugs are bad.....and until you go out and deal drugs for yourself, then you cant make your own opinions on it.......

Granted that is a very extreme comparison, you cant tell me that I cant look at images and videos of waste and obvious rape/pillage of a natural resource that is on the decline, and then tell me I cant form an opinion about it until I have tried commercial fishing.....

This is what is hurting the ecosystem:
1) Technology
2) Overfishing (using said technology)
3) Pollution and run off
4) Natural Cycle of fish
5) Politicians
We can not change #4, but we have the ability to control #1 #2 # 3 and #5.

Ive been fishing AB and MHC as a recreational fisherman for 15 years. I did not catch my first flounder, red drum, spanish mackeral, hattarass blue, cobia, sheepshead, or speckeled trout until 2010.....Why you ask? Because I did not have access to sites like FPT, NCA, NCW, or TXShark....

Once I had access to this information, I was led to the technology and techniques needed to target speciific species, and then it was on! Now since 2010, I have been catching almost everything I fish for. The only species on my list are offshore species that I just physically dont have access too.

In my 15 years of fishing, all I ever hear about, on the pier or on the shore, old timers telling me how great the fishing was in the past. About how many fish they were allowed to keep. About how many stripers they use to catch in MHC!!!!!!!!! About how it was nothing to sit at the end of the pier and see multiple 15ft+ sharks stroll past the end. About the INSANE blue fish blitzes on the beach....About how great BFT fishing use to be! About how great kingfishing from the pier used to be! About how you could fill a cooler of spots as big as your head in no time at all ( I have not been able to fill a cooler of spots in 5 years.....use to do it with ease)!!

Its not the same anymore. Why is the BFT population so depleted Seapower? Why isnt the fishing as good around MHC/AB/BIP anymore? Somebody please tell me why.

Im willing to learn, and I am a very fast learner. Show me the truth.


Durwyn,
I would scinerely offer you this, you are welcome on either one of my boat's to come and fish, for the very specie's you can't physically get too. No joke here. The problem I have with the new "inter-net" age is that men don't have the same opportunity to look each other in the eye and talk. It's all a faceless world, where anyone can become educated, beyond belief, without ever leaving the kitchen table. Just by spending a day with me (or someone like myself) you would get a "feel" for who and what I really am.
Sir,there are fish on your list that are still out there, but their pattern's have changed. I can site bluefish, rock (striper's), tuna,dolphin, etc...... On one of the previous post's, I gave the range (in miles up and down the coast) of where I have fished and made a living "by the pound". Not really alot of folk's that can do that, overnight. So please don't down talk my dislike for inter-net info. As I said previous, I am telling you what I have seen for myself, not something that someone else told me.
You cannot use one small geographical area AB & MHC as basis that there aren't anymore tuna, bluefish, trout around. If you were to take a trip some few mile's North, say out of Oregon Inlet (right now) you could see more BFT than you thought were still on the planet. Those same BFT (yes the big one's) stayed off the mouth of Chesapeake Bay and Rudee Inlet for week's and month's this winter. They were caught 1 mile off Rudee Inlet in 36 foot of water, wrapped up in some of the most and largest straight run Rock, that we've seen in year's. Fact
I would have to say that weather (lack of cold water) had something to do with them not being pushed down South. The bluefish you don't see on the beach, are still here too. They have been hanging "offshore" in the deep water for year's now. Rock have been doing the same thing, do you know how far they were last year? 45 mile's off Virginia Cape, I've never seen that before, until last year. My point is simply this, there are fish out there, they just aren't where they "used" to be. That could all change next year, that's just what fish do.
As far as overfishing over the Highly Migratory Fish, we need to look at what the REST of the world is doing. Our catches are regulated. When these fish leave our shore's, for the most part there is no law.
The offer stand's, I'm not a loose cannon. There are folk's on here that know me personally. When you're ready to see it for yourself, give me a shout. Frank
  
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BaitWaster
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

However pictures and video's can be and are used to make a point and may not be representative of what is actually happening. Happens on many different fronts and situations 7 causes.

Ever see a video of a "pure culture" of sea mullet, spots or jumping mullet coming on board from a gillnet?

And the poster pic of the red drum high and dry used so frequently by some net -ban groups was from a gillnet set illegally (incorrect buoys) by an elderly MHC-local woman in the Newport to "catch something to eat."

I went out with a flounder gillnetter in the Newport River area and was actually surprised at how clean this this fishery was *on this particular trip*. But then he was dropping multiple shots of net in the evening and hauling back first thing in the AM and taking the gear out of the water. BTW, I called him asking if I could go after he had set his gear. About 20-25 flounder, all alive but one. Larger ones were bleed for the sushi market. 6 puppy drum. 4 live including the 2 shorts. Menhaden were crab eaten as were a couple of small bluefish.
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RoughandReady
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaitWaster wrote:
However pictures and video's can be and are used to make a point and may not be representative of what is actually happening. Happens on many different fronts and situations 7 causes.

Ever see a video of a "pure culture" of sea mullet, spots or jumping mullet coming on board from a gillnet?

And the poster pic of the red drum high and dry used so frequently by some net -ban groups was from a gillnet set illegally (incorrect buoys) by an elderly MHC-local woman in the Newport to "catch something to eat."

I went out with a flounder gillnetter in the Newport River area and was actually surprised at how clean this this fishery was *on this particular trip*. But then he was dropping multiple shots of net in the evening and hauling back first thing in the AM and taking the gear out of the water. BTW, I called him asking if I could go after he had set his gear. About 20-25 flounder, all alive but one. Larger ones were bleed for the sushi market. 6 puppy drum. 4 live including the 2 shorts. Menhaden were crab eaten as were a couple of small bluefish.
Thats basically the same story that 2 flounder netters told me an hour ago when I talked to them.
About this subject.
They said its a very clean fishery & the nice thing is they didn't have to poke 4 holes in him to measure it.
  
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seapower
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catchem1 wrote:
"Its not the same anymore. Why is the BFT population so depleted Seapower? Why isnt the fishing as good around MHC/AB/BIP anymore? Somebody please tell me why.
Im willing to learn, and I am a very fast learner. Show me the truth."

Truth... ok....

You ask Why?.... OVERFISHING.... BFT are such a Highly Migratory Species (HMS) that their stock has been CRUSHED... Long gone are the days where a 1500lb BFT is landed.... bye bye BIG Breeding Stock...

Is there an undeniable parallel between this FACT and the inshore fish of today...?

YES.... bye bye Breeding stocks of Citation size inside fish.... (sure you may pick up one every now and then... but not like the pictures i have seen from Wrightsville Beach from the 60's and prior).

Whose to Blame... EVERYONE! bottom line... There is a better way... Everyone will need to sacrifice a portion their "Fishing Freedoms" to some extent for the good of the Fishery...


Catchem 1,
I'll offer you the same exact thing I offered "Durwyn". By the way, did you happen to read my response to your fishless less question? If not please do and get back to me. This isn't smoke and mirror's, this is just what fish have done for ever.

Fishing is one of those occupation's and form's of enjoyment, that follow many of the other lesson's in life. By the time you've started to figure it out (or just begin to understand it), you're TOO OLD to do it. Even then, you'll be out smarted by them just about everyday. Frank
  
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