Commercial Hunting??

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Commercial Hunting??
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Catchem1
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Commercial Hunting?? Reply with quote

Just as Commercial Hunting was phased out due to the decimation of Native Animal Populations...

So is the fate of Commercial Fishing and you see it happening NOW!!

and not in the next 30 years... it will be in the next 10 years!

Have a Plan...
Gain Knowledge and EXPERIENCE in Aquaculture (if you want to continue to harvest certain species of fish)

IS this a BAD THING?

Look at all the Jobs Livestock Farming Produced

What if we still had commercial Duck Hunters and Buffalo Hunters... Sounds ridiculous... right? RIGHT!

Its time for us to evolve and adapt and quit b*tch*ng about how this isn’t fair....

Don’t say you were not advised of History... b/c it will repeat itself!

Sincerely,
Former Commercial Fisherman who has evolved
  

Last edited by Catchem1 on Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:10 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Squid Row
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One duck pair produces how many offspring per year?

One black sea bass pair has how many?

You are comparing apples to oranges as fish reproduce at a far greater rate than land animals.

Nice try.
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Curmudgeon
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are comparing apples to oranges as fish reproduce at a far greater rate than land animals.


But it becomes apple-apple when comparing what happens to both if more numbers are removed each year than can be produced. Not taking sides in this ensuing urination contest, just saying ... :?
  
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Catchem1
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: "The Settlers have Arrived!" Reply with quote

I consider my self avid and educated fisherman and overall good steward...

I'm sure the Indians who followed and hunted the VAST Populations buffalo to sustain life knew the importance of stewardship and conservation to survive to maintain their fragile balance.
Well, you know the story… along came the Settlers who took the buffalo to a point of near extension.

Well, in our case, the “state of the Fisheries” is becoming dire…
The “Settlers” have arrived and certain fish stocks are moving undeniably in the wrong direction…

I can foresee the obvious... You can too!

Please educate and prepare yourself, I’m just saying…
  

Last edited by Catchem1 on Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mist
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just as the SELLING of WILD GAME CONTINUES...SOOO will the SELLING OF SEAFOOD in this state.......legal or illegal.............  
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Catchem1
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mist wrote:
just as the SELLING of WILD GAME CONTINUES...SOOO will the SELLING OF SEAFOOD in this state.......legal or illegal.............


It will be legal... ie: aquaculture

When is the last time you bought "Wild Harvested Duck" at the Grocery??
  
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mist
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catchem1 wrote:
mist wrote:
just as the SELLING of WILD GAME CONTINUES...SOOO will the SELLING OF SEAFOOD in this state.......legal or illegal.............


It will be legal... ie: aquaculture

When is the last time you bought "Wild Harvested Duck" at the Grocery??

..How about "Wild Harvested Deer and Pig" in the back yard?????
  
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Catchem1
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

quote]
..How about "Wild Harvested Deer and Pig" in the back yard?????[/quote]

Big Fan! I cant wait till the EUROPEAN boar get to the coast here! I will definitely tear them up! (They are getting close too! another couple of years probably)

Fishing; however, is a different ball game... the Pig and Deer stocks are going up... Certain targeted market Fish; however, not so much....

Again.... Education and Foresight is the only way forward at this point..
  
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WAHOONBOX
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ALL THIS GREEN TALK IS GREAT AND ALL THAT ABOUT EVOLVING AS YOU SAY....BUT AT LEAST GRANDFATHER IN THOSE THAT ARE CURRENTLY TRUE COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN....LET ME DIE OUT MAKING A LIVING BY CATCHING FISH AS I HAVE ALL MY LIFE.......AND ONCE COMMERCIAL FISHING IS BANNED AND I WILL AGREE THIS WILL HAPPEN AS SOON, ALL THOSE OPPOSED TO COMMERCIAL FISHING SHOULD BE FORCED TO EAT TALAPIA EVERY DAY OF HEIR LIVES THEREAFTER


OTHERWISE I WANT A SWEET BUYOUT JUST AS OUR SCREWED UP GOVERNMENT BOUGHT OUT ALL THE TOBACCO FARMER ALLOTTMENTS MAKING MANY FARMERS RICH WHO ACTUALLY HAVE BEEN KILLING PEOPLE WITH THEIR DEADLY PRODUCT FOR A HUNDRED YEARS!
  
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Catchem1
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WAHOONBOX wrote:
ALL THIS GREEN TALK IS GREAT AND ALL THAT ABOUT EVOLVING AS YOU SAY....BUT AT LEAST GRANDFATHER IN THOSE THAT ARE CURRENTLY TRUE COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN....LET ME DIE OUT MAKING A LIVING BY CATCHING FISH AS I HAVE ALL MY LIFE.......AND ONCE COMMERCIAL FISHING IS BANNED AND I WILL AGREE THIS WILL HAPPEN AS SOON, ALL THOSE OPPOSED TO COMMERCIAL FISHING SHOULD BE FORCED TO EAT TALAPIA EVERY DAY OF HEIR LIVES THEREAFTER


OTHERWISE I WANT A SWEET BUYOUT JUST AS OUR SCREWED UP GOVERNMENT BOUGHT OUT ALL THE TOBACCO FARMER ALLOTTMENTS MAKING MANY FARMERS RICH WHO ACTUALLY HAVE BEEN KILLING PEOPLE WITH THEIR DEADLY PRODUCT FOR A HUNDRED YEARS!


I feel you brother!

Fishing to me is life (MOST definitely my source of happiness)!

I know it is to many who both had and have the great opportunity to make a living on the water!

Unfortunately, we may be the last to FULLY experience this way of life due to the circumstance we find us in...
  
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Squid Row
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curmudgeon wrote:
You are comparing apples to oranges as fish reproduce at a far greater rate than land animals.


But it becomes apple-apple when comparing what happens to both if more numbers are removed each year than can be produced. Not taking sides in this ensuing urination contest, just saying ... :?


I agree with that. Reasonable, scientific based managment is a great concept.

Now if it would just be implemented
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MealOnReels
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First the apples:It didn't take scientific mgmt. to determine wildlife could not support a comm. sector.No big govt.like NOAA with outside influence from enviros.Just common sense.There's been no comm hunting for how long?80-100 years?You would think ducks would be everywhere.Its obvious wildlife cant be commercial.Besides,people needed their habitat for a growing population. Now oranges:There can be a comm sector in fishing with common sense,scientific mgmt. with no political outside influence payoff BS.Right now sea bass are the best example of a fishery that can support comm fishing.They were harvested for only 6 weeks last year and now have taken over every ledge out there.It's like they have to be harvested.So like Squid said,comm hunting/comm fishing=apples/ oranges.  
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FREEBIRD
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People sit back and think a little here. When the fish are farm raised they will be controlled just like our gas is. You will not be able to afford a fillet because they will be so expensive.  
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PurpleGold
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WAHOONBOX wrote:
ALL THOSE OPPOSED TO COMMERCIAL FISHING SHOULD BE FORCED TO EAT TALAPIA EVERY DAY OF HEIR LIVES THEREAFTER


Best idea yet!! Love it!!
  
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seapower
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just curious, does it ever get too rough to hunt duck's? Can buffalo swim to the other side of the Atlantic, if they so decide? This enquiring mind want's to know. Frank  
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drumchaser73
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

" MAKING MANY FARMERS RICH WHO ACTUALLY HAVE BEEN KILLING PEOPLE WITH THEIR DEADLY PRODUCT FOR A HUNDRED YEARS!"

So it's the farmers killing off people?
Guess the guns are doing all the killings to.
  
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ecsports
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FREEBIRD wrote:
People sit back and think a little here. When the fish are farm raised they will be controlled just like our gas is. You will not be able to afford a fillet because they will be so expensive.


You meas like the big fish house owners are trying to do right now with Catch Shares? Aquaculture would bring more fish to the market and lower the price while reducing our dependancy on foreign imports.
  
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Squid Row
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Aquaculture can bring a lot of fish to the market, but the variety would be severely limited.

Anyone that eats farm raised imported sea food needs to have their head examined.
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RoughandReady
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI, People Catchem1's most famous quotes from over the years:

Topic made by him: Ended up being Locked...
Delayed Harvest for ALL saltwater species

Catchem wrote:
Just My Opinion... Where is your heart???


Most fisherman love the fish we catch and want them to thrive... lets admit it... our familys are not starving b/c of a temporary closure to keep the fish we catch.

I am all about a delayed harvest season for all saltwater species... why not? I want the fish to have bountiful populations for generations to come...

Lets not be greedy fisherman... lets protect what we love!

I for one would fully support an extended delayed harvest for all saltwater species!

After all... hunters have specific seasons for hunting different game (for good reason!)... why not the same for all fish species?


First Quote about throwback groupers.About a year ago...
Catchem wrote:
This is sad... And not the first time I have heard of irresponsible bottom fisherman. The crew I fish with is always responsible in venting every fish that is in need of assistance to be released (being a Good steward of our oceans).

UNFORTUNATELY... I have specifics on commercial operations here off WB and CB that never release shorts only to throw them on their deck... Ignorantly attempting to (not turn off the bite) and throw them off while in route to their next drop. I will not drop names b/c you know who you are! I will be further researching this issue.


His more refined statement week ago!
Catchem1 wrote:
I do have one concern about our Grouper Fishery...

Let me preface by saying I worked my way through college by deckhanding on Commercial Grouper Boats out of Carolina Beach and Wrightsville Beach... Looking back I am very ashamed I took part in the following; however, per the Captains... i "Did Not Have A Choice"...

I'm sure it is COMMON PRACTICE when grouper fishing to throw the "Shorts" on the Deck not to "Turn off the Bite" and keep fishing for the Keeper size... then when its time to Fly the Anchor... throw the shorts back... I found this SO F'd up!

This happened on MOST of the Commercial Grouper boats I was on... WTH guys? Talk about part of the BIG Problem... Not Dropping Names at this time....


Catchem has also expressed a dire need for gamefish status.
enjoy!
  
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Curmudgeon
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just as the SELLING of WILD GAME CONTINUES...SOOO will the SELLING OF SEAFOOD in this state.......legal or illegal.............

Just more reasons Rabbit Rangers will always have a job, jails beds will always be in short supply, and birth control should always be available ... 8O
  
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Desert1
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not raise fish in NC it will be good idea.  
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RoughandReady
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desert1 wrote:
Why not raise fish in NC it will be good idea.


I beleave that we are starting to see more and more farmed fish in NC. But,
I think the cost restraints and other associated farming type problems make
it hard to get into that field at this point.
  
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Catchem1
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoughandReady wrote:
FYI, People Catchem1's most famous quotes from over the years:

Topic made by him: Ended up being Locked...
Delayed Harvest for ALL saltwater species

Catchem wrote:
Just My Opinion... Where is your heart???


Most fisherman love the fish we catch and want them to thrive... lets admit it... our familys are not starving b/c of a temporary closure to keep the fish we catch.

I am all about a delayed harvest season for all saltwater species... why not? I want the fish to have bountiful populations for generations to come...

Lets not be greedy fisherman... lets protect what we love!

I for one would fully support an extended delayed harvest for all saltwater species!

After all... hunters have specific seasons for hunting different game (for good reason!)... why not the same for all fish species?


First Quote about throwback groupers.About a year ago...
Catchem wrote:
This is sad... And not the first time I have heard of irresponsible bottom fisherman. The crew I fish with is always responsible in venting every fish that is in need of assistance to be released (being a Good steward of our oceans).

UNFORTUNATELY... I have specifics on commercial operations here off WB and CB that never release shorts only to throw them on their deck... Ignorantly attempting to (not turn off the bite) and throw them off while in route to their next drop. I will not drop names b/c you know who you are! I will be further researching this issue.


His more refined statement week ago!
Catchem1 wrote:
I do have one concern about our Grouper Fishery...

Let me preface by saying I worked my way through college by deckhanding on Commercial Grouper Boats out of Carolina Beach and Wrightsville Beach... Looking back I am very ashamed I took part in the following; however, per the Captains... i "Did Not Have A Choice"...

I'm sure it is COMMON PRACTICE when grouper fishing to throw the "Shorts" on the Deck not to "Turn off the Bite" and keep fishing for the Keeper size... then when its time to Fly the Anchor... throw the shorts back... I found this SO F'd up!

This happened on MOST of the Commercial Grouper boats I was on... WTH guys? Talk about part of the BIG Problem... Not Dropping Names at this time....


Catchem has also expressed a dire need for gamefish status.
enjoy!


You are spot on (for the most part)!

Yep, I love our ocean! I love our Fisheries! This is where my heart is!

I will be honest... and with an educated point of view speak my heart... That’s what this board is about... Right???? :?:

I despise certain unethical and greedy fisheries practices I have witnessed that go on (this is the Minority... but still happens).

Gamefish Bill... Good (for certain fisheries) and Bad (for those who make a living at targeting those species)

Doing nothing and not being pro-active is not an option...

And yes, that post about the theoretical "Delayed Harvest" for all inside fishing topic was LOCKED>... Unfortunately...
Its kinda funny b/c a Delayed Harvest could have been a "Commercial Fisherman’s Solution" to the Gamefish Bill... A little late in the game now
Honestly, it would have been fun to entertain that conversation for a while longer...
  
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ChrisMcCaffity
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There could be a responsible commercial harvest of deer and other animals on land. Farmers are allowed to kill deer in their fields. They can even spotlight for them. I have heard about farmers killing up to 30 deer only to leave them in the field to rot. What a waste. They should be allowed or even required to sell that meat rather than waste it. The key to a responsible recreational or commercial harvest of anything is to not harvest faster than the stock can replenish. The harvest may be limited to only a few dozen moose or 10,000 deer depending on the stock level. Stock levels are largely dependent on the amount of food and habitat in an area. There are three key things needed to produce more fish or game.
1. Increase the food supply.
2. Increase the amount of shelter or habitat.
3. Predatory stress invokes a reproductive response. The higher the level of predation from any source, the more offspring a species will produce.

Artificial reefs in our offshore waters could be the perfect union of aquaculture and commercially or recreationally harvested wild fish. They create the base of the food chain and can greatly increase the bio-mass an area can support. Wild-caught fish are the perfect food source if we responsibly harvest them and enhance their habitat. Wild game could also provide a sustainable supply of food while keeping some wildlife populations from exploding. There are places where wild turkeys, deer, moose, elk, and other animals are a nuisance and safety hazard on the roads. Overpopulation in some areas also causes some animals to starve to death or spread disease. We need to look at the big picture when managing fish and wildlife. Maybe we should start allowing a limited commercial harvest of some healthy and overpopulated tasty animals on land.
  
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Curmudgeon
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The higher the level of predation from any source, the more offspring a species will produce.

Were that the case, the Pacific coast would be unable to process the over-abundance of salmon. Not exactly a cogent argument when dealing with fish ... :?
  

Last edited by Curmudgeon on Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ChrisMcCaffity
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curmudgeon, it does not matter how high the reproductive rate is if we harvest a species faster than they reproduce. Food and habitat also play key roles in this. Salmon spawning grounds have been negatively impacted by dams and pollution. Natural predators like Seals and Sea Lions have overpopulated many areas where salmon live. A limited commercial hunt of those mammals and habitat restoration as well as reasonable quotas for fishermen would allow salmon stocks to achieve Optimum Yield. Fishery management is not rocket science. We just need to use sound science, the slightest bit of common sense, and remember the Golden Rule. We also need to remember that fish are a RENEWABLE source of healthy food and manage them as such.  
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Curmudgeon
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curmudgeon, it does not matter how high the reproductive rate is if we harvest a species faster than they reproduce.

I believe I made that point. Sorry, assumed too much with the salmon analogy. At any given time, the fishery is what it is. If predation creates increased reproduction, the pacific states should only have to declare open season and stand back. The predator-prey relationship is certainly valid in nature, but starts can easily break down when man becomes the determinant predator. We don't play by nature's rules ...
  
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Desert1
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you cannot take out more than can be replaced  
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Catchem1
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a little hesitant to say that ALL of our fish stocks are "Renewable" and we "Cannot take out more than can be replaced"...

We sure can loose our big breeders and tip the gene pool...
(Imagine if we killed off all the Hot Girls over the years (the big fish) and all that were left were the Nasty Girls (little fish)... the gene pool would look alot different in a matter of one generation.

For Example:
My grandfather has pictures of MASSIVE Black Grouper off of Wrightsville Beach! Not saying there gone... but they are sure gone from here (ie: we already killed off all of that gene pools "hot girls" around here) :(
  
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ChrisMcCaffity
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catchem1, of course we CAN take out more than can be replaced without PROPERLY managed quotas. All fish stocks are a renewable resource if we do not harvest them faster than they can replenish regardless of the reproductive rate.

I agree with your statement that most of the biggest and oldest fish have been caught. Our offshore bottom was pretty much a virgin fishery until about 50 to 70 years ago. Fish did not need to produce as many offspring because the stocks already had as many fish as the natural reefs could support. After centuries of no fishing pressure, we had decades of roller-rigs, bottom trawlers, inshore long-lining, and unlimited hook-and-line fisheries that decimated stocks. The remaining fish adapted to this new predation and started producing more offspring to fill the void on the reefs. Then fishery managers decided to require fishermen to target nothing but the large breeding stock and made it harder for the stocks to recover. A glut of small fish grew slowly as they competed for the same food source. Little runts and weak fish polluted the gene pool and reduced the overall health of the stocks as well as the average size of the fish in them. We should be targeting more of the small fish that are better eating and have fewer toxins in many cases while allowing some of the big breeders to continue growing and producing millions of new fish. The small fish that escape capture will grow quicker without as much competition. We will have plenty of young delicious fish to eat and more big fish to catch as well.

Curmudgeon, we can responsibly harvest stocks of fish forever as long as we PROPERLY manage the stocks. We CANNOT remove fish at a faster rate than they can reproduce or the stock will collapse. Predation does cause fish to produce more offspring, but you still CANNOT harvest them faster than they can reproduce.
  
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