SAFMC March 2011 Summary Motions

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SAFMC March 2011 Summary Motions
SAFMC March 2011 Summary Motions
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SAFMC March 2011 Summary Motions
 
 
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Capt_Keith
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:22 pm    Post subject: SAFMC March 2011 Summary Motions Reply with quote

http://www.safmc.net/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=sDz7%2fdriUdc%3d&tabid=712
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ChrisMcCaffity
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capt_Keith, what is your goal in fishery management? Do you have any solutions?  
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Matador
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisMcCaffity wrote:
Capt_Keith, what is your goal in fishery management? Do you have any solutions?


Not to speak for Keith but go read all you can about RFA. That about sums it up.
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ChrisMcCaffity
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some in the RFA leadership appear to be working for what is in their best interest without regard for the fish, consumers, or commercial fishermen. They are chasing distant goals that will take years to be implemented by the same bureaucrats causing the problems now. They refuse to even discuss the negative impacts of arbitrary size limits. They refuse to support the proper management of unnecessarily low quotas. They refuse to stand up to the CCA while scolding me for talking with PEW. The RFA's passive support for derby fisheries and arbitrary size limits contributes to the gross mismanagement that closes our fisheries down early and denies consumer's access to local seafood while creating tons of wasted regulatory discards.

I mean no disrespect to anyone in the RFA with these observations. I am sure most RFA members just want to be free to go fishing and join to help defend that freedom. I support fixing the MSA and many other goals of the RFA. I want individual fishermen and different fishing organizations to unite behind a few simple short-term and long-term goals. We have power in numbers if we will stand united. The NCFA has let me down as a commercial fisherman. They just seem to say no to everything and refuse to offer any real solutions.
  
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Matador
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris, most people that have been burned will say no to everything unless you can present facts. And sometimes still say no because they no longer have any trust.
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ChrisMcCaffity
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Closed minds lead to closed fisheries.  
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Matador
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisMcCaffity wrote:
Closed minds lead to closed fisheries.


Entertaining anything Pew stands for leads to closed fisheries. Supporting Ron Paul guarantees socialism.
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ChrisMcCaffity
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe Ron Paul is the only candidate that would stop the rise of socialism. I will support him in the primary and try to get Mitt to embrace some of his ideas like a moratorium on new regulation.

PEW appears to be more supportive of actions that would limit waste and keep our fisheries open than most fishing organizations. I would love to have conversations with every group involved in fishery policy. I publicly challenged PEW, CCA, EDF, and a few other environmental "charities" to public debates. PEW is the only one willing to have a discussion. The fishing organizations do not even seem to want to have an open conversation about SOLUTIONS most of us can support. We could win this fight this year if we just coordinated our efforts and stood united in support of a few common sense solutions. We need to either convince the environmental "charities" to embrace better fishery management ideas or expose how the wasteful regulations based on "fatally flawed" data they support are causing countless dead and dying fish to be discarded in the name of conservation.

Thank you for your willingness to chat. Please check out my discussion with PEW if you have not seen it. http://www.freefish7.com/pew-discussion.html
  
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Matador
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris................... you're killing me. What kind of debate or conversation do you intend to have because neither you nor Pew have the needed/accurate information to make an honest/informed decision. That's the whole problem for fishermen and all groups. The groups know everything (completely fabricated or inaccurately extrapolated) and the fisherman on the water see something completely different. That's the great divide.
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Capt_Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisMcCaffity wrote:
Some in the RFA leadership appear to be working for what is in their best interest without regard for the fish, consumers, or commercial fishermen. They are chasing distant goals that will take years to be implemented by the same bureaucrats causing the problems now. They refuse to even discuss the negative impacts of arbitrary size limits. They refuse to support the proper management of unnecessarily low quotas. They refuse to stand up to the CCA while scolding me for talking with PEW. The RFA's passive support for derby fisheries and arbitrary size limits contributes to the gross mismanagement that closes our fisheries down early and denies consumer's access to local seafood while creating tons of wasted regulatory discards.


chris,

While we agree on somethings....there are somethings that I do not agree with. The above statement being one of them.

ChrisMcCaffity wrote:
They are chasing distant goals that will take years to be implemented by the same bureaucrats causing the problems now.


You got me on this one. Guilty as charged.
INHO THe RFA is the only group out there that sees the ROOT of the evil. The MS act. If that is not changed....we will keep fighting and losing these battles over and over again. The MS Act MUST be changed.

The single reason I am involved with the RFA is becasue they seek to change this law. If that purpose ever changes....you can count me out.

ChrisMcCaffity wrote:
They refuse to even discuss the negative impacts of arbitrary size limits..


That is becasue not all size limits are bad.I agree that size limits on deep caught fish are useless.(over 150 foot) but overall Size limits were working as expected and we were moving toward better and better fishing.

Fish must be allowed to to spawn at least once if not twice before caught. In shallow water I have no problem with that.

ChrisMcCaffity wrote:
They refuse to support the proper management of unnecessarily low quotas...


Your kidding me right? We were the ones filing lawsuits over low quatas, their mismanagment and faulty data. We put our money were our mouth was!

ChrisMcCaffity wrote:
They refuse to stand up to the CCA while scolding me for talking with PEW....


Who was it holding the CCA, along with other groups, feet to fire over Catch Shares....Oh I remember...THE RFA. I was personaly was involved in this effort...so I hate to tell you that you are wrong.

I will scold you even now for even talking to PEW. They will do nothing but use you and your efforts to get what they want. They do not care about YOU, Your Community, your family or anyone else. They want us all out of the Ocean, Comm and Rec alike. I have no use for them...IMHO...>They can &*$% OFF!

Dave
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ChrisMcCaffity
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capt_Dave, the bills in Congress now will do little to fix the MSA and have little chance of being voted on this year. Any changes would still allow the same bureaucrats to pick and choose which mandates they will or will not enforce. We need to pick a replacement for Jane Lubchenco like Dr. Rothchild and stand united in our call for him to replace her. That is something we can all support and would be implemented with the new President. We also need to let jane's replacement know what we want to happen. We could have our fisheries back next year.

I have pretty much agreed with science based size limits for fish in less than 20 fathoms. Many size limits are increased to reduce the number of fish kept. That is the job of possession limits. I still believe the fish, fishermen, and consumers would be better off if we just kept what we caught regardless of size until our possession limits are met and count everything landed against the quotas. We would have 30% higher quotas without all of the dead discards deducted from the TAC.

We also need to win in the court of public opinion with positive solutions that limit waste and feed more people. Fewer discards and Artificial Reefs are simple ideas almost everyone supports. We just need to give a lot of people an easy way to show their support.

Sorry about the CCA comment. I was wrong.

We will have to disagree on talking to the enemy. I am still willing to talk with anyone about our fisheries.

Thank you and the RFA for all the good work you are doing. We could see results much quicker if every fishing organization and their members would stand united in support of one simple solution like firing lubchenco. We can agree to disagree on other issues.
  
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ChrisMcCaffity
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matador, we have to talk with roy crabtree and other people who are just as bad as anyone at PEW. What is the difference?  
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ChrisMcCaffity
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capt_Dave, I want to apologize if I offended you with my statements about some in the RFA leadership. You are the reason I added some. You are the ONLY RFA leadership I have talked with that really seems to think about the big picture. We have a chance to win this fight THIS YEAR if we will coordinate the efforts of many organizations and individuals. I would love to work with the RFA and other groups on organizing fishermen's rallies at each SAFMC meeting this year.

Ignoring environmental "charities" or things like derby fisheries and regulatory discards does nothing but allow them to exist unchallenged. Saying nothing about the tons of regulatory discards makes us complacent and passive supporters of the government mandated waste and abuse. I am NOT a supporter of discarding hundreds of tons of dead and dying fish in the name of conservation. Fish are food and should be managed as such. The enjoyment of catching them and being on the water is a bonus. The failure of fishermen to realize this will result in NOAA's prediction of most recreational fisheries being only catch and discard within a decade becoming a reality. The quotas will be filled with dead discards rather than fish in coolers to feed people.
  
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Capt_Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisMcCaffity wrote:
Capt_Dave, I want to apologize if I offended you with my statements about some in the RFA leadership.


Chris,

I am not offended in any way. As long as the discussion is civil....You can not offend me.

I don't think the RFA is gods gift to fishermen either. I have issues with them as well but the reason I got involved and remain involved with them is that they want to change the law. Everyone else wants to fight this fight or that fight...IMHO they are wasting their time and resources. This Law is the problem. Once this law is fixed...the rest will resolve itself.

I applaude what you are doing....even if we do not agree on somethings. The world would be a boring place if we all agreed on everything. That is why I promoote civil discussion amoung all groups.

Someone Pmed me about if I would allow PEW or EDF to post here. Yes I would. As long as they follow the rules just like everyone else...

Dave
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ChrisMcCaffity
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capt_Dave, this is why I like talking with you. You are a thinker that understands the value of civil discussions. "When everybody thinks alike, nobody thinks."

Do you think the bills in Congress go far enough to make a real difference in the MSA? Roy crabtree told me that the only MSA mandate they have to follow is the one to end overfishing. Do you think roy and his minions would follow the new mandates? Does the RFA have a preference for lubchenco's replacement? I would support you as her replacement.

I applaud your willingness to allow PEW, CCA, EDF, or anybody to be part of a civil discussion on here. We should not be afraid to use our Freedom of Speech in peaceful defense of our rights and resources.
  
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Capt_Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisMcCaffity wrote:
Capt_Dave, this is why I like talking with you. You are a thinker that understands the value of civil discussions. "When everybody thinks alike, nobody thinks."

Do you think the bills in Congress go far enough to make a real difference in the MSA? Roy crabtree told me that the only MSA mandate they have to follow is the one to end overfishing. Do you think roy and his minions would follow the new mandates? Does the RFA have a preference for lubchenco's replacement? I would support you as her replacement.

I applaud your willingness to allow PEW, CCA, EDF, or anybody to be part of a civil discussion on here. We should not be afraid to use our Freedom of Speech in peaceful defense of our rights and resources.


Best availible science is the one that is killing us. It needs to be up to date peer reviewed science.

Dr. Rothchild would be "Da Man" for us I am pretty sure.

Dave
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Matador
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisMcCaffity wrote:
Matador, we have to talk with roy crabtree and other people who are just as bad as anyone at PEW. What is the difference?


I talk to neither by choice. On one hand I know their positions and on the other hand I know the truth. Its that simple. I looked at some of their numbers and call total BS on their methods and resulting data from various methods as none of it made sense no matter how you bent it. I have asked for models...no reply. I have challenged margin of error... no reply. That tells me that 1) the margin of error is off the charts and therefore any number produced is worthless, or 2) their data is a complete fabrication or the extrapolation isn't scientific (seen that one for sure) or 3) the data and outcomes are accurate but are being ignored. NOAA, PEW, or EDW will never solve the problems at hand considering current leadership. Catch Shares (the savior that they propose) is the reason for all the manipulation. These are the same people that brought us subsidized hybrid cars, carbon tax, and my favorite...global warming (we were all suppose to have died late last year according to the UN) and universal healthcare (all of which were lies, failures, or proven failures in other countries). I will do all my talking in November.
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ChrisMcCaffity
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capt_Dave, I agree 100% we need accurate up to date peer reviewed data. I also support Dr. Rothchild as lubchencos replacement. Here is a link to Mitt Romney's suggestion webpage if anyone wants to let him know you support these two solutions. http://www.mittromney.com/forms/suggestions

Matador, I cannot argue with any of your points. They are all correct. I am just saying that we need to bring attention to this problem by offering simple solutions like the ones Capt. Dave posted. We need to let our public servants know what we want. The Dec. SAFMC meeting in Atlantic Beach would be a great place to let our newly elected public servants know we are serious. One thousand fishermen protesting with press coverage at the meeting would get some attention. I do not care at all if crabtree or his puppet masters will listen. Our message needs to go far beyond their sold and closed minds.
  
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