An answer for the net ban and gamefish status

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An answer for the net ban and gamefish status
An answer for the net ban and gamefish status
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An answer for the net ban and gamefish status
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eric13
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ice cream man wrote:
eric13 wrote:
You have one group that is well funded, determined, and good at publicity. Then on the other hand you have a group that is tight lipped, unsocial, and weary of strangers with candy. You look around the internet all you want but all you are going to see there is what the one said has to show you. Which is an extremely slanted point of view. Not saying you didn't see what you saw, just saying that theres a lot you didn't see and that you wont see unless you experience it. No one on the internet is capable of showing you what we are talking about. Suffice it to say, you cant believe everything you see on the internet.


The OP AllenJ, he has the experienced both side of this issue & I seriously doubt he's well funded or a representative of some well oiled publicity seeking activist group.
His plan has merit, it can work if given a chance. Instead of pontificating about Internet arguing, make your point by debating his original post.
Instead he's personally attacked, for stepping up. Why? Because he may have a viable solution. ....... ICM


ICM I have no problem with allenj. He is putting forth an idea that he thinks has merit. And it does have merit. I too strike flounder for money, but I also use nets and trawls. It may be, actually it must be impossible for folks to believe that a professional net man can fish cleanly and with little to no by-catch, but just because you dont believe it does not mean it's not true. I stand by my post that eliminating the RCGL will do enough to solve the problems. At the very least it is a big step in the right direction that puts NO economic stress on the commercial fisherman. If the problems still persist after this action is taken, then look at more extreme actions.

I think that now that the ball is rolling, SOME would like to make all the sweeping changes that they can while momentum is on their side. I dont however think allenj is one of these people, he is only trying to help. I just question if this plan of his would be the same if he wasn't so proficient with a rod and reel and a gig.(thats a compliment....)

Some will never like gill nets no matter if the truth was beating them in the head. They dont like it, wont like it, and have no wiggle room at all in their opinion making process. Those folks will only be happy with an all out ban. Those folks (imo) are unknowingly ushering in the demise of their own hobby by being the mouthpiece for radical environmental groups set on polarizing the community and eventually taking the whole resource.

I also find it really interesting that a couple of new folks show up stirring the pot between the two user groups in the lead up to the march rally. Call me a conspiracy nut all you want, all I'm saying is that it's funny these arguments get regurgitated at this precise time. I will fully support the rights of all who fish, even those who would see me out of business for their own small gains.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx Eric. All I was trying to do is get an idea out there of a scenario of how things could be. Some see it with open eyes, and some are blind.

The Gamefish bill will eventually pass (I am against it), and when it does a net ban will follow due to interactions with Gamefish. Once it gets to this point everything will be lost and people will be out of work. My example is just that an example of how things could be. Trout/drum/striper could still be sold. I just thought it was a good example of a compromise. (everyone talks about compromise, but when someone makes a suggestion......well you know)

Thanks for all that have read without blinders on. This is just an idea. If nothing is done, all will be lost down the road.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

allenj wrote:
Thx Eric. All I was trying to do is get an idea out there of a scenario of how things could be. Some see it with open eyes, and some are blind.

The Gamefish bill will eventually pass (I am against it), and when it does a net ban will follow due to interactions with Gamefish. Once it gets to this point everything will be lost and people will be out of work. My example is just that an example of how things could be. Trout/drum/striper could still be sold. I just thought it was a good example of a compromise. (everyone talks about compromise, but when someone makes a suggestion......well you know)

Thanks for all that have read without blinders on. This is just an idea. If nothing is done, all will be lost down the road.


Allen you need to read this and stop insulting people who have a long commercial history. Remember I don't have a thing to lose or gain here as
I don't profit from any of thse fisheries but I know most that are involved in Them.
So all the Commercial guys that are 45 to 70 years old that strike net
Like some people you know should throw a cast net for mullets? Half of them can't pick up a
cast net to catch Mullets. What are they suppose to do? Everything you have suggested is what you do, You Gig, you love hook and line trout & Drum & the only net I've ever seen you set in 10 years is a spot net. And you have allways talked about the flounder nets being in your way while gigging. If you feel net fishing is on its way out you should have let it go gracefully. But pushing your agenda and calling
fellow inshore fishermen blind isn't the right way to do things.
The worse thing You suggested would be making Red Drum a primary
catch and let every commercial operation catch 10 fish per day by hook and line. Its a bycatch fishery and thats where it needs to stay. If you want to see red drum get caught up and stocks hurt thats great. But the guys he's condemning are the ones who are mostly responsible for helping Red drum stocks stay viable. You always hear all the bad stories about net fishing & nobody tells the real truth. Most professional netters
are looking towards the future(which is gloomy for them) and are good stewards but some arn't. Its just like any group.
I've watched several Great strike netters Like Dennis Thompson, Brother John, Rooster, Tony Morris, & JM Bypass big schools of red drum over the years because they knew it was the right thing to do. And all they are after are mullets. Also during the strike net season most drum that are caught are released quickly alive the rest are sold. Been there done that. Just accept that these other guys have a different point of view and arn't as "Blind" as you think.
Good Luck!
  
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoughandReady wrote:
allenj wrote:
Thx Eric. All I was trying to do is get an idea out there of a scenario of how things could be. Some see it with open eyes, and some are blind.

The Gamefish bill will eventually pass (I am against it), and when it does a net ban will follow due to interactions with Gamefish. Once it gets to this point everything will be lost and people will be out of work. My example is just that an example of how things could be. Trout/drum/striper could still be sold. I just thought it was a good example of a compromise. (everyone talks about compromise, but when someone makes a suggestion......well you know)

Thanks for all that have read without blinders on. This is just an idea. If nothing is done, all will be lost down the road.


Allen you need to read this and stop insulting people who have a long commercial history. Remember I don't have a thing to lose or gain here as
I don't profit from any of thse fisheries but I know most that are involved in Them.
So all the Commercial guys that are 45 to 70 years old that strike net
Like some people you know should throw a cast net for mullets? Half of them can't pick up a
cast net to catch Mullets. What are they suppose to do? Everything you have suggested is what you do, You Gig, you love hook and line trout & Drum & the only net I've ever seen you set in 10 years is a spot net. And you have allways talked about the flounder nets being in your way while gigging. If you feel net fishing is on its way out you should have let it go gracefully. But pushing your agenda and calling
fellow inshore fishermen blind isn't the right way to do things.
The worse thing You suggested would be making Red Drum a primary
catch and let every commercial operation catch 10 fish per day by hook and line. Its a bycatch fishery and thats where it needs to stay. If you want to see red drum get caught up and stocks hurt thats great. But the guys he's condemning are the ones who are mostly responsible for helping Red drum stocks stay viable. You always hear all the bad stories about net fishing & nobody tells the real truth. Most professional netters
are looking towards the future(which is gloomy for them) and are good stewards but some arn't. Its just like any group.
I've watched several Great strike netters Like Dennis Thompson, Brother John, Rooster, Tony Morris, & JM Bypass big schools of red drum over the years because they knew it was the right thing to do. And all they are after are mullets. Also during the strike net season most drum that are caught are released quickly alive the rest are sold. Been there done that. Just accept that these other guys have a different point of view and arn't as "Blind" as you think.
Good Luck!




Joe, I have not insulted anyone, and flounder nets do not bother me or get in my way. I have commercial fished (part time and full time)my whole life, just as my father, and my grandfathers. I have over 3000 yards of rotten flounder net that is no good anymore due to reg changes. I quit flounder netting 10-12 years ago when I found gigging was more productive, and easier, and I got paid twice the amount for gigged fish versus netted fish. Joe, this is just an "idea" of how things "could" be. I DO NOT HAVE AN AGENDA. I do not have the power to push through any laws.

Again this thread was nothing more than to suggest an idea of how things could be without losing it all. Joe, you can call me what you want. I am not calling names and pushing my point of view on anyone. This is an idea. If nothing is done all WILL be lost. Our State house and Senate will vote, and there will be no rallys or anything. We will wake up one morning and it will be done.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

allenj wrote:

This is an idea. If nothing is done all WILL be lost. Our State house and Senate will vote, and there will be no rallys or anything. We will wake up one morning and it will be done.




^This x1000

Face it fellas, you do not have millions of supporters who will "occupy" eastern NC to run rallies to stop them..........


You want to know why things like SOPA and PIPA did not pass? Because of the millions of supporters on internet sites like Facebook and Reddit.....
  
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a rookie compared to the guys going back and forth, so I need some help.
Why has the inshore fishing improved so dramatically in other states that have banned nets in inshore waters? Why is the Louisiana fishing so good for drum? Why are people from NC driving down there and taking their money to go out with guides?
Please enlighten me.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aftergolf wrote:
I am a rookie compared to the guys going back and forth, so I need some help.
Why has the inshore fishing improved so dramatically in other states that have banned nets in inshore waters? Why is the Louisiana fishing so good for drum? Why are people from NC driving down there and taking their money to go out with guides?
Please enlighten me.


Ed. Last time I checked Louisiana on that show raging cajins
They have alot of Net fishing going on the inside. Didn't see gill nets but seen this>
http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/ragin-cajuns/
Alot more bycatch then our state. Giant shrimp rigs on another show.
Drum fishing is great here also from the reports.
Maybe those people want to see what its like, Looks like they have
massive resources & alot more shrimp then us also.
  
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How far north from NC can you catch trout and drum?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aftergolf wrote:
I am a rookie compared to the guys going back and forth, so I need some help.
Why has the inshore fishing improved so dramatically in other states that have banned nets in inshore waters? Why is the Louisiana fishing so good for drum? Why are people from NC driving down there and taking their money to go out with guides?
Please enlighten me.


AfterGolf,
Being's that I don't live down in the Onslow Bay area, I can't say one way or the other (I have a really strong suspicion though). Let me offer this question about my backyard, my some on here can help me.
There are no more pound net's, no more haul net's, huge area's closed to trawling, very, very few gill netter's (as compared to years past), less than 20% of the shrimp trawler's there was 20 year's ago. The area's closed, were closed(back then) primarily for flounder. Do you think that the rec fishing has gotten any better here? Not really, because the size limit's were designed (over time) to pretty much eliminate any fish that were big enough to keep. We have many year's were the speckled trout are thick as flea's, yet we cannot keep but a few. What historicaly happen's here is, the trout go to be some really very nice fish. You know bragging citation size fish everywhere. What happen's then (just like clockwork) is that we end up with a cold snap and then some snow. They all roll up dead, yes the creek's and river's become absolutely littered with them. Is it legal to take a dip net and go dip those dead fish, so they at least could be eaten. Nope! Last year was a really good example, just as year's past. It was cold enough to kill trout, puppy drum,flounder, rock, even mullet.

This question has (to my knowledge) never been answered, in a way that had any common sense at all. When you close all of these area's, put tight regulation's on rec creel limit's and size's, just in the name of "saving" the fish. Then "said" fish die off completely (because of natural cause's, like cold and snow), what have you really done?????? One other question, could you please tell me why the oyster's are dead and dying in the same area's. Manny of these area's haven't seen a dredge or bottom tending net's in over a decade now.

There is so much here about fish stock decline, that is never, ever addressed. This is and has been a "touchy" subject, to say the least. But what I have noticed over the year's, as the restriction's increase, the fish stock's haven't. Frank
  
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aftergolf wrote:
I am a rookie compared to the guys going back and forth, so I need some help.
Why has the inshore fishing improved so dramatically in other states that have banned nets in inshore waters? Why is the Louisiana fishing so good for drum? Why are people from NC driving down there and taking their money to go out with guides?
Please enlighten me.


How much did it improve in Louisiana? It was good when netting was around then too. The commercial redfishing there was crazy for a while. Comparing NC with other states is a bad idea. Our systems are completely different. Louisiana has thousands of square miles of estuaries,etc. There are many, many more commercial fishermen there too. Louisiana has huge lodges geared towards fishing and hunting and always have. Even before a net ban. People traveling there to fish is nothing new. That being said, there's plenty of people from the same area that come and fish here as well. There are also alot of "so called" fishermen that don't want to take the time to find good fishing here and would rather go where it's like shooting fish in a barrel. There's nothing wrong with that, just don't try and compare the two areas and use a guess as to why it's different. That's like me asking why do guys go to Panama to catch yellowfins when we have them here? You get what I mean?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. I read different articles in magazines and on TV plus a few message boards. I am truly trying to understand why and I believe these posts have helped.
There is so much rhetoric it is hard to wade through the BS to get to what is the truth. There will always be ways to take a particular data set and make it fit your position.
When you are not on the water very much (wish I were), it is tough.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seapower,Good question how natural causes[last years permafrost]stack against man made.When the Man Upstairs goes catching He doesn't need a permit,rec or comm!  
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fishfindertoo wrote:
How far north from NC can you catch trout and drum?


For the most part for red drum and spotted sea trout(speckled trout) the Delmarva peninsula is the furthest north. Not so for Weakfish(grey trout)
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

speckhunter80 wrote:
Fishfindertoo wrote:
How far north from NC can you catch trout and drum?


For the most part for red drum and spotted sea trout(speckled trout) the Delmarva peninsula is the furthest north. Not so for Weakfish(grey trout)


Thanks, the reason I was asking is basically what's stated above....cold stuns, mother nature, habitat differences all play a big roll in the different locations. I don't see how you can expect the same fishery here that you have in a completely different climate (like Louisiana). Do the fish in the southern states breed more often, because of the warmer climate? That may be a stupid question but you don't know if you don't ask.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fishfindertoo wrote:
How far north from NC can you catch trout and drum?


FishFinder,
They are not allowed to go past MHC Basin, it's the law. No fish North of there, don't believe what you're told! lol Frank
  
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seapower wrote:
Fishfindertoo wrote:
How far north from NC can you catch trout and drum?


FishFinder,
They are not allowed to go past MHC Basin, it's the law. No fish North of there, don't believe what you're told! lol Frank


Cool, can we get wahoo and dolphin to stop at the big rock so I don't have to look too hard to find them. wink
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fishfindertoo wrote:
seapower wrote:
Fishfindertoo wrote:
How far north from NC can you catch trout and drum?


FishFinder,
They are not allowed to go past MHC Basin, it's the law. No fish North of there, don't believe what you're told! lol Frank


Cool, can we get wahoo and dolphin to stop at the big rock so I don't have to look too hard to find them. wink


FishFinderToo,
Not a chance, they already got room's rented in Hatteras! lol Frank
  
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seapower wrote:
Fishfindertoo wrote:
seapower wrote:
Fishfindertoo wrote:
How far north from NC can you catch trout and drum?


FishFinder,
They are not allowed to go past MHC Basin, it's the law. No fish North of there, don't believe what you're told! lol Frank


Cool, can we get wahoo and dolphin to stop at the big rock so I don't have to look too hard to find them. wink


FishFinderToo,
Not a chance, they already got room's rented in Hatteras! lol Frank


:x Worth a shot.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cedarock wrote:
This is my first post and I would first like to say that I have enjoyed this fabulous site for the last year and thanks to all the members for contributing to make it possible for fishermen to communicate with each other! The reason I came here was that I started fishing the Brunswick Co. waters about one year ago and started searching for a local site to keep up with what was going on when I was away. I was raised in Washington County and have been on the water every chance I could since I was 10 years old as a recreational fisherman! I value our natural resources and want it to be protected for future generations. When I was a kid, people could catch herring by dropping a hoop net from the many bridges that crossed the creeks of the Roanoke River. As it became popular to set gill nets, the fish became harder to catch and then the regulations on mesh size began! Was it too late or was the decline due to catches outside of our control? Looking back, I wonder how a herring would be able to get upstream to spawn with the nets set every 300 feet across the river! Oh how I would love to have a good mess of them fried up in some lard like we used to on the river bank some 30 years ago!

I have also enjoyed striper fishing throughout my life and was one of the many recreational boats that witnessed the massacre out of Oregon Inlet. How can a species survive with today’s technology and the ability of a trawler to see the school and basically scoop it up with the net and discard what he doesn’t want to keep! That just about made me puke. I remember days of catching plenty of flounder by simply drifting a piece of cut squid across almost any inlet…now you are lucky to catch one by doing that and then it will be way short. I personally don’t think that people catching them with hook and line did the damage to the resource because the throw backs would have been legal size the next year. Trout the same…..you can only catch undersized now! Spots are hard to catch now, when that was an easy catch years ago! Something is going wrong with our resource management and if one does not see it, I think that they are being blinded by something.

I have personally witnessed what an ocean set gill net will produce for the fisherman. The one and only time that I will have any part in helping one pull a net from the ocean produced about 25 percent of what was targeted. Sharks need to be protected too….it might be the only source of fish protein left if things continue on the same path. I am not trying to bash the commercial fisherman as I understand the importance of it for fishermen and the economy and I love some fried shrimp too! But, based on my experience as an eastern North Carolinian, we are on the path to a depleted fishery. Commercial or Recreational????? What is the answer…..I don’t know but I have enough sense to know that something has change dramatically in my life time!

I hope that something is done before it is too late. I am just an average joe with a modest means to fish and love every second of it. I hope that we can achieve a balanced approach that will protect the resource and preserve the commercial fishery as well! I hope this does not come across as an argumentative post but I do have concerns based on my experiences.

Thanks again for such an informative site!


Cedarock,
Good first post, don't make it your last! I have fished that backyard of your's and know it well. Up until they pulled the old rr bridge, do you remember the herring run run every year till that one? If you wanted to catch rock, you needed to do nothing more than drive a few mile's North. This warm weather had them jammed tight just above the NC/VA line, along with BFT on the beach. The flounder size has been adjusted purposefuly , so that all you catch is undersize fish. Do you remember the huge flounder caught on the South Side by the bombing range in the pound net's? The year that quite, was the year (several year's now, back) that the Sound froze over. Remember the ice was thick enough to take out all the pound net stakes and the navigation bouy's. Pretty thick stuff that was, must have been cold, lot's of dead fish and crab's rolling around after the thaw. It's a shame, but it's never been the same since. I too gillnetted on the beach as you did, that one time. The only by catch I ever caught was dogfish, if you caught those in light webbing, you know why we avoided them. Most of us had double net reel's on deck with various sizes of webbing to catch our target fish. Had more to do with the market, than anything else (why catch 9 cent a pound croaker, when you could catch 1 dollar a pound trout, again it was a market thing. May have had something to do with the boat you were on.
I too remember how it "used" to be, but know that there's other force's at play here. Ever remember those algae bloom's that now come out of the River, just a decade ago? How about that green"slime" that grow's on anything that sit's for more than a few day's now. How about the school's of fatback's with, open red sore's. How about all the dead water (salt wedge) that start's up the Sound now, in late spring. Use to be maybe one or two dead water episode's if the summer was extrememly hot and still. Then only a couple day's long, by the way the this new dead water issue, started pretty close to the same time of that freeze I mentioned. Oh wait, there's one more thing. Remember the year we had Hurricane's Berta and Fran back to back, then only a couple more week's later tropical strom Josehine? That few week's brought so much un-oxygenated tanic water in from the swamp's that it killed all the fish in the River's and Sound. We had the same thing last year with Irene.
I'm not jumping on you here, just sharing my memory with you. Yes I do remember how it "used" to be. But there are many thing's at work here, but just have a few "other" reason's to offer. I too would rather see it like it was! Frank
  
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank, awesome post! Another thing that I believe and saw first hand even in my comparibly shorter career than yours. Last year, the drought was so bad that the salt line in the shallotte river moved way past the shallotte bridge (the line after which it is considered fresh water) and when it did, the crabs followed. I had to move every one of my pots as far up river as allowed and still they were not within my reach. I talked with some guys who were fishing the rivers in SC and they were catching crabs as far as 15 miles up river on hook and line. Just another instance of things appearing to be on a decline when they were actually just adjusting to the conditions they had to deal with. The lower shallotte river was pretty much a dead zone for crabs until the fall of the year when we got a little relief with rain. The green sludge and algae blooms you are describing are no doubt a result of fertilizer run-off that is super charging the river plants and sucking up the oxygen. There is a LOT of resistance to this idea as a lot of these folks enjoy water front homes. It is easier for them to blame the comms for netting up their fish last night then to admit they are also part of the problem. All this run-off gets sucked out of the cape fear and other rivers and then sucked in by the gulf stream and gets distributed widely across the oceans. All the management in the world will not stop the decline in fish stocks. It is a sign of something much more sinister than the comm fisherman, it is a result of our way of life and the things we have become accustomed to. Everyone likes to reminisce about the good old days of fishing, but no one fondly remembers sleeping with open windows rather than air conditioners. Technology is the enemy and there is no answer, because it is the biggest addiction and we all suffer from it.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eric13 wrote:
Frank, awesome post! Another thing that I believe and saw first hand even in my comparibly shorter career than yours. Last year, the drought was so bad that the salt line in the shallotte river moved way past the shallotte bridge (the line after which it is considered fresh water) and when it did, the crabs followed. I had to move every one of my pots as far up river as allowed and still they were not within my reach. I talked with some guys who were fishing the rivers in SC and they were catching crabs as far as 15 miles up river on hook and line. Just another instance of things appearing to be on a decline when they were actually just adjusting to the conditions they had to deal with. The lower shallotte river was pretty much a dead zone for crabs until the fall of the year when we got a little relief with rain. The green sludge and algae blooms you are describing are no doubt a result of fertilizer run-off that is super charging the river plants and sucking up the oxygen. There is a LOT of resistance to this idea as a lot of these folks enjoy water front homes. It is easier for them to blame the comms for netting up their fish last night then to admit they are also part of the problem. All this run-off gets sucked out of the cape fear and other rivers and then sucked in by the gulf stream and gets distributed widely across the oceans. All the management in the world will not stop the decline in fish stocks. It is a sign of something much more sinister than the comm fisherman, it is a result of our way of life and the things we have become accustomed to. Everyone likes to reminisce about the good old days of fishing, but no one fondly remembers sleeping with open windows rather than air conditioners. Technology is the enemy and there is no answer, because it is the biggest addiction and we all suffer from it.


Eric,
Be careful there fella, you're thinking for yourself again. We wouldn't want the truth to get in the way! I will say that it is good to see that some other's are seeing and recognizing some of the same thing's. There are lot's of "obvious" reason's for the decline's. It's just that the guy's that are pursuing fish daily for a living (I'm speaking of the fishery's I am familar with), see a different set of "obviuos" problem's than the weekender's.
By now, I guess everyone that's read these page's, know's how I feel. It may be time for me to quit beating this horse for abit. It's just hard not to keep beating him, when he won't stop wiggling! Frank
  
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive said this a million times, if its true results u want to see, then net bans are NOT the answer...too many people are plain ignorant on NC fisheries, they take everything they read on the internet as fact and trust that everything the CCA says is fact. The truth is this: if u truely want to see results in healthier fisheries in NC then get rid of inshore trawls, period. Seeing the push for net bans makes me realize just how uneducated a majority of people pushing for a net ban truely are, folks, trawls are what devastes stocks, not gillnets, plain and simple. Get rid of trawls and a guarantee within a few years results will be seen, ban gillnets and in a few years youll be looking for something else to ban!!  
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james34 wrote:
Ive said this a million times, if its true results u want to see, then net bans are NOT the answer...too many people are plain ignorant on NC fisheries, they take everything they read on the internet as fact and trust that everything the CCA says is fact. The truth is this: if u truely want to see results in healthier fisheries in NC then get rid of inshore trawls, period. Seeing the push for net bans makes me realize just how uneducated a majority of people pushing for a net ban truely are, folks, trawls are what devastes stocks, not gillnets, plain and simple. Get rid of trawls and a guarantee within a few years results will be seen, ban gillnets and in a few years youll be looking for something else to ban!!

...but the GOSPEL of CCA told me what the TRUTH IS...and I GOT MONEY tied up in THAT CHURCH!!!!!..................They got to be 100% RIGHT!!!
YES AMEN!!!!
  
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james34 wrote:
Ive said this a million times, if its true results u want to see, then net bans are NOT the answer...too many people are plain ignorant on NC fisheries, they take everything they read on the internet as fact and trust that everything the CCA says is fact. The truth is this: if u truely want to see results in healthier fisheries in NC then get rid of inshore trawls, period. Seeing the push for net bans makes me realize just how uneducated a majority of people pushing for a net ban truely are, folks, trawls are what devastes stocks, not gillnets, plain and simple. Get rid of trawls and a guarantee within a few years results will be seen, ban gillnets and in a few years youll be looking for something else to ban!!


James,
Maybe I could get you up this way and you can show me, where/how banning trawler's has equated to more fish. Less fish and dead oyster's, go figure? Frank
  
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First Light
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To allenj and all those who felt his idea had merit and should be pursued, what do we do now? Do we believe seapower represents the majority of commercials and we should just forget trying to work with them? Should we just join CCA? Or should we just give up and as they say, lay back and enjoy it?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First Light, we should look at things most people can agree on as an alternative to game fish status and net bans. Here are two ideas that would reduce the number of nets in the water while still allowing commercial fishermen to provide consumers with access to our public resources. First, stop allowing RCFL holders to use gill nets or trawls. Second, allow multiple strike netters to work togther on the same boat. Each permit holder could keep their limit while saving fuel and limiting waste. I am sure we could come up with a few other solutions that could get broad support from both sectors. Seapower talked about size limits being set too high. We are targeting the breeding stock while leaving a glut of small fish that grow slowly as they compete for the same food source. The runts and weak fish pollute the gene pool and reduce the overall health of a stock.

We do not have to compromise on HB-353 so much as offer an alternative that benefits everyone and protects our fisheries.
  
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eric13
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Location: 20-35 miles west of where I'd like to be...

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First Light wrote:
To allenj and all those who felt his idea had merit and should be pursued, what do we do now? Do we believe seapower represents the majority of commercials and we should just forget trying to work with them? Should we just join CCA? Or should we just give up and as they say, lay back and enjoy it?


I dont think SP is saying to do nothing, he's just saying that no matter what you do it's not going to help in the way you think it will. Net bans will not keep NC from being on the freezing line for shallow fish like trout and drum and they will still die off by the millions when it does freeze and those fish wil be left for the birds to chew. We are not Louisiana, and we are not any of those other states that folks like to point to. We never will be. Ban everything you want and then in turn be banned out of your practice when it is determined that the current bans aren't doing enough. Theres so much chicken little going on with the sky falling and we must do something now. Reminds me of Joe's avatar. What these guys are saying is that the damage is done, and nothing you do will bring it back to the way it was long ago, nothing short of a hurricane that wipes all the water front houses off the map and then 50 years of no more building and no fertilizing/runoff from parking lots/people in general. Then the fish will come back to healthy levels like you all are seeking. As long as we have tons and tons of bad stuff flowing freely into our waters compacted by winter die offs, we will be right where we are now.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eric13 wrote:
First Light wrote:
To allenj and all those who felt his idea had merit and should be pursued, what do we do now? Do we believe seapower represents the majority of commercials and we should just forget trying to work with them? Should we just join CCA? Or should we just give up and as they say, lay back and enjoy it?


I dont think SP is saying to do nothing, he's just saying that no matter what you do it's not going to help in the way you think it will. Net bans will not keep NC from being on the freezing line for shallow fish like trout and drum and they will still die off by the millions when it does freeze and those fish wil be left for the birds to chew. We are not Louisiana, and we are not any of those other states that folks like to point to. We never will be. Ban everything you want and then in turn be banned out of your practice when it is determined that the current bans aren't doing enough. Theres so much chicken little going on with the sky falling and we must do something now. Reminds me of Joe's avatar. What these guys are saying is that the damage is done, and nothing you do will bring it back to the way it was long ago, nothing short of a hurricane that wipes all the water front houses off the map and then 50 years of no more building and no fertilizing/runoff from parking lots/people in general. Then the fish will come back to healthy levels like you all are seeking. As long as we have tons and tons of bad stuff flowing freely into our waters compacted by winter die offs, we will be right where we are now.


...yes amen....THAT IS COMPLETELY SO!!!
  
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if eric is not saying do nothing, what does he propose? We can't turn the clock back and I don't see anybody moving out of NC.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First Light wrote:
Well if eric is not saying do nothing, what does he propose? We can't turn the clock back and I don't see anybody moving out of NC.


First Light,
Seriously, I remember commercial fisherman, warning about what all this development was gonna cause. Back when land went for sale and was bought up by developer's that had enough power, cash in the bank and the influence that it took to build golf course's, housing development's, retirement community's, shopping center it took to service those community's, sewage treatment plant's, etc.............. The very same land that "home folk's" who owned it previously, couldn't even get a permit for a dock or simple ramp, from DNR. Never mind the Army Corp's. Seem's that the only thing we heard about was, "how much money" all this was gonna bring to the area. Well when money is mentioned, commercial guy's automatically take a back seat, or just thrown out of the building.
When we started having the huge influx of cotton farming, with all the monthly spraying, absolute clean ditch's that allowed the run off to go straight to the creek's, even after a light rain. Our farm's (regardless of what they grow) are, have more chemical's put on them now to kill weed's, bug's, mold, fertilizer to accerate growth, etc........ Where does the run off go????? Straight down the large, well manicured ditch's, that lead STRAIGHT to our esturary's. I seem to remember commercial fishermen, jumping straight up and down over these issue's, too.
How about when we have Industry, right on the water's edge and they have acid spill's????? Commercial guy's would report it, along with the plume of lime they would put out to neutralise the acid. Do many of us remember any State or Fed Dept even come out and check these report's. Big Fat NO.
As you can see from just a few tidnit's from my feeble memory, the commercial guy has been the "Canary in the Mine Shaft". Problem has been, that JOb Number 1 has been to kill that damned Canary!!! Yes we are ALL much wealthier (I would surely hope so) from the changes to Eastern NC, after all they were crammed down our throat, by those that KNEW what was good for us. Well we have the same group of rocket scientist's at it again. I can't for the life of me figure out why we don't think it's a good idea to "compromise" just one more time.
I for one am not so sure that, (long term) it was such a good idea. Seem's like I heard that line before, wonder where. When I start telling ANYTHING that's not the truth, please tell me. I will then shut my pie hole! You can't make this stuff up! Frank
  
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